NJ: Prosecutor delays Shaneen Allen Trial

[Midwest]

NJ: Prosecutor delays Shaneen Allen Trial

Here is an update to the story of the lady from PA who accidentally broke NJ gun laws wile traveling through the the state.

http://www.nranews.com/cam/video/gi...-nappen-prosecutor-delays-shaneen-allen-trial


"In breaking news, NRA News investigative reporter Ginny Simone and attorney Evan Nappen report that the Atlantic County, New Jersey prosecutor has requested a delay of the Shaneen Allen trial so that he may review and determine an appropriate resolution of the case. Allen accidentally broke New Jersey gun laws while traveling through the state with her firearm that's legally owned and licensed in Pennsylvania. Prosecutor Jim McClain denied Allen, a first-time offender, the opportunity to participate in a pre-trial diversion program and instead she was given a trial date of October 6. If convicted, Allen would face a more than three-year mandatory minimum sentence. Learn more about the Shaneen Allen case here. Originally aired on NRA News Cam & Co 9/12/14."
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[MarkDido]

Sounds like CYA mode to me.

 

[jerkface11]

Sounds like a governor who wants to be president to me.

 

[RustyShackelford]

TMZ/politics

The media website; www.tmz.com is now saying the Atlantic County NJ prosecutors can't stand the DA and are shocked by his statements-actions in the controversial Ray Rice case(the NFL player involved in the documented domestic violence incident).
It looks like this legal beagle is going to have a lot of heat.

If I were him Id cut the PA mom case loose and try to do some damage control.
From the comments of his own prosecutors, he sounds like he's losing his grip.

 

[alsaqr]

Rusty is right on the money.

The NJ prosecutor who went after Shaheen Allen is James McClain. Prosecutor James McClain gave Ray Rice a pass for knocking his wife out in an elevator. Now McClain is catching a sky full of flak for his failure to prosecute Rice. That may help Shaheen Allen's case.

 

[Armybrat]

Pretty hypocritical of that guy to prosecute a woman who carries legally in her home state to protect herself against thugs like Rice.

 

[RustyShackelford]

NJ gov/AG powers.....

Could the gov of New Jersey or the AG by their authority of the office(s) or the state constitution remove the Atlantic County DA(lead prosecutor)?
I'm not a NJ resident and I'm not aware of the state powers/legal authority of that state.

In my state, we use "state attorney" positions. It's a elected post that is not technically affiliated with the AG's office. The SAO prosecutors are not considered sworn LE officers or have police powers/arrest authority/badges like in some places & the federal government(DoJ).
I spoke directly to the now former state atty for my district. He's a 100% disabled veteran(SE Asia/US Army) & a former county sheriff. He told me how the state AG is not as powerful as a elected state atty is certain positions.

 

[Willie Sutton]

Sounds like a governor who wants to be president to me.


If you had ANY understanding of the basics of civics, you would understand that the Executive Branch of government cannot interfere *in advance* with the actions of the Judiciary. The Governer can issue a pardon *after a conviction* but to interfere in advance with a prosecution in advance is not within his powers.

If you had ANY understanding of NJ Politics, you would see that the Prosecutor and Judge assigned to the case are no friends of the Governer, and are part of the Democratic political machine. From a purely cynical political standpoint, they would be MOST interested in embarassing Christie by getting a conviction and then making Christie take one of two choices, both bad for him politically, as follows:

1: Pardon her (noting that he's done this before for unfair firearms convictions) and let the Dems use that as ammo for a campaign that he's "soft on gun crime".

or

2: Not pardon here and let pro RKBA *nuts* use that as further ammo to badmouth him as not being "good enough" to satisfy their needs.


This is a win-win for the Dems if they get a conviction. And so there's no way in the green earth that the Governer could ever influence this in advance, either in a legal way, or by any informal influence peddling.


The same *exact* "You can't win" scenario was set up by the legisature when they sent the recent package of gun control bills to his desk. Veto them and he loses. Not veto them and he loses. Note that he vetoed them.

I know Christie from before his election as Governer. He is a very good guy and a straight shooter. You might not always like what he says, but you can count on the fact that he says what he means. He's made errors in his career (who hasn't) and he's learned from them. He was a great Federal Prosecutor specializing in jailing corrupt NJ officials, and he's been an *excellent* Governer of NJ, which is a VERY VERY hard place to govern. Cut him some slack.

Th word within the NJ political world is that should this woman be convicted, the she would be pardoned. That would raise Christies esteem among the RKBA community at the expense of angering the antis. The calculus is that the antis already hate him and that the positives would far outweigh the negatives, and this calculus is likely *exactly* why the Prosecutor is having second thoughts about pressing this. Anything that these players can do to deny Christie the opportunity to be a leader is the path they will take.


You need to be a real student of NJ politics to "get it" perhaps, and your knee-jerk reaction is way off base. 180 degrees off in fact.


Willie

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[Midwest]

They need to put up one of these signs before entering New Jersey


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[jerkface11]

If you had ANY understanding of the basics of civics, you would understand that the Executive Branch of government cannot interfere *in advance* with the actions of the Judiciary. The Governer can issue a pardon *after a conviction* but to interfere in advance with a prosecution in advance is not within his powers.

The prosecutor is executive branch. Plus Christie has shown that he will exceed his powers if it suits him. Or is shutting down bridges out of spite something the governor is allowed to do in Jersey? But at least you were rude about it.

 

[xXxplosive]

This is the State of Corruption......IMO.....not much else.

 

[sota]

As much as I'd hate to throw this lady under the bus... I want this to go to trial. I want her to lose. I want there to be such a huge public outcry that people actually wake up and DO SOMETHING about the insane state of gun laws in this state. Unfortunately I don't see any of that happening as the vast majority of people in this state are so indoctrinated into serving their Masters it's pathetic.

 

[Deanimator]

The accused is dumber than dirt, but the prosecutor is evil.

But hey, I guess in NJ carrying a gun and NOT hurting somebody is WAY worse than knocking a woman unconscious. I suspect that would hold even if the victim had gotten a skull fracture and died.

 

[g.willikers]

Shows what folks in New Jersey are like, doesn't it?
In most places, that No Guns, 2nd Amendment Free sign would be well ventilated.
Speaking of signs, there's supposed to be a number of billboards, on behalf of Ms Allen, being put up by the NJ2A around the Atlantic County courthouse.

 

[BLB68]

In most places, that No Guns, 2nd Amendment Free sign would be well ventilated.

I'm pretty sure ventilating that sign would require shooting one's own monitor.

 

[sota]

The accused is dumber than dirt, but the prosecutor is evil.

While I have no basis to confirm or refute your accusation, I don't see how it's relevant to the stupidity that is this state's gun laws. (or for that matter, half or more of the laws we have in general.) The "belief" that one's LTCF in their home state is universal to all states because one's LTDC (license to drive a car) is universal is NOT a huge stretch of the imagination.

People come in all levels of mentality, and are not and cannot be denied basic natural rights such as effective self defense simply because they're not all Rhodes Scholars.

 

[we are not amused]

The prosecutor is executive branch. Plus Christie has shown that he will exceed his powers if it suits him. Or is shutting down bridges out of spite something the governor is allowed to do in Jersey? But at least you were rude about it.

Sorry, but State Governments are organized differently than the Federal Government, with the State Attorney General usually being elected separately from the Governor. That means the Governor does not control the Attorney Generals office, plus many counties and cities have their own separately elected prosecutors which are also not answerable to the Governor or even the State Attorney General.

Governor Christie did not shut down the bridges out of spite, the best evidence is it was done by an aide with out the Governor's knowledge, given the number of powerful Democrats who hate his guts, if there was any evidence to show he ordered it, he would be in jail now, as rule of law in New Jersey is tenuous at best.

I am not a Big Christie supporter, certainly not for President, but I think he is the best thing to happen to New Jersey for a long time. New Jersey has been in the hands of corrupt political hacks like Jon Corzine for far too long.

At least he has been less unfriendly toward gun owners than any recent New Jersey Governor.

 

[jerkface11]

At least he has been less unfriendly toward gun owners than any recent New Jersey Governor.

That's a low standard to hold someone to.

 

[we are not amused]

Shows what folks in New Jersey are like, doesn't it?
In most places, that No Guns, 2nd Amendment Free sign would be well ventilated.
Speaking of signs, there's supposed to be a number of billboards, on behalf of Ms Allen, being put up by the NJ2A around the Atlantic County courthouse.

Tom Gresham on Gun Talk radio has been supporting that effort. Apparently more money was raised than originally anticipated, meaning more billboards.

 

[we are not amused]

That's a low standard to hold someone to.

Well, that's New Jersey for you! What do you expect?

 

[Deanimator]

The "belief" that one's LTCF in their home state is universal to all states because one's LTDC (license to drive a car) is universal is NOT a huge stretch of the imagination.

It's not only an IMMENSE stretch, it's all that much bigger because it's NEW JERSEY.

How dumb AND uninformed do you have to be to live NEXT DOOR TO New Jersey and NOT know how rabidly anti-gun they are???

This isn't like those people whose flights into NYC get delayed and they get arrested for having guns they LEGALLY flew in with. There was NOTHING ambiguous here.

It's like going to Saudi Arabia and thinking you can can drink a fifth of vodka and eat a bag of pork rinds while leaning on the Kabaa.

That of course doesn't make their gun laws GOOD. It just makes her stupid for not making even a MINIMAL effort to know them.

Observation and personal experience tell me that the cops make LITTLE effort to know the law. That's why I make an effort to know it myself, at least to the extent that I don't violate it. I'm holding her to the same standard to which I hold myself.

People come in all levels of mentality

Are you suggesting that she plead "diminished capacity"?

 

[we are not amused]

It's not only an IMMENSE stretch, it's all that much bigger because it's NEW JERSEY.

How dumb AND uninformed do you have to be to live NEXT DOOR TO New Jersey and NOT know how rabidly anti-gun they are???

This isn't like those people whose flights into NYC get delayed and they get arrested for having guns they LEGALLY flew in with. There was NOTHING ambiguous here.

It's like going to Saudi Arabia and thinking you can can drink a fifth of vodka and eat a bag of pork rinds while leaning on the Kabaa.

That of course doesn't make their gun laws GOOD. It just makes her stupid for not making even a MINIMAL effort to know them.

Observation and personal experience tell me that the cops make LITTLE effort to know the law. That's why I make an effort to know it myself, at least to the extent that I don't violate it. I'm holding her to the same standard to which I hold myself.


Are you suggesting that she plead "diminished capacity"?

I am soo glad that you superior intellect allows you to judge and condemn people so readily!

Obviously you have never ever made a mistake or failed to be aware of everything!

What would we ever do with out you!

 

[Deanimator]

I am soo glad that you superior intellect allows you to judge and condemn people so readily!

I am too.

It's not a guarantee that I won't get falsely arrested for something that's not a crime, but it certainly cuts down on the likelihood that I'll legitimately be arrested for something I SHOULD have known IS a crime.

ADULTS have at least a minimal responsibility for their own actions and to at least minimally know the law, at least to the extent that they don't BLATANTLY violate it.

I wonder what you'd say if a NJ cop shopping in PA falsely arrested her in PA for carrying with hollow points. I'd want his career ended. I wonder if you'd accept his excuse that he didn't know that was legal in PA and that he had no authority to arrest for it.

 

[sawdeanz]

It's not only an IMMENSE stretch, it's all that much bigger because it's NEW JERSEY.

How dumb AND uninformed do you have to be to live NEXT DOOR TO New Jersey and NOT know how rabidly anti-gun they are???

This isn't like those people whose flights into NYC get delayed and they get arrested for having guns they LEGALLY flew in with. There was NOTHING ambiguous here.

It's like going to Saudi Arabia and thinking you can can drink a fifth of vodka and eat a bag of pork rinds while leaning on the Kabaa.

That of course doesn't make their gun laws GOOD. It just makes her stupid for not making even a MINIMAL effort to know them.

Observation and personal experience tell me that the cops make LITTLE effort to know the law. That's why I make an effort to know it myself, at least to the extent that I don't violate it. I'm holding her to the same standard to which I hold myself.


Are you suggesting that she plead "diminished capacity"?

I listened to an interview she gave on the we like shooting podcast. She discussed how she had only recently gotten her ccw after a couple of burglaries or something. Apparently pa doesn't have a ccw class requirement, but nonetheless she responsibly signed up for a class anyway. The class was scheduled for the week after she was arrested so it was an ironic case of bad place and bad timing. I shared sober of your same feelings until I listened to the interview. She really was trying to inform herself but the nj cop got to her first. This really is about vengeful a vengeful prosecuter (who lets off football players that beat women) and I'm glad to hear public pressure, especially from the firearm community, is causing him to rethink.

 

[Deanimator]

This really is about vengeful a vengeful prosecuter (who lets off football players that beat women) and I'm glad to hear public pressure, especially from the firearm community, is causing him to rethink.

As I've already said, I have NO doubt that there's genuine malice on the prosecutor's part. I'm sure he's out to punish somebody for being a gun owner.

That having been said, why make yourself vulnerable to somebody like that?