No Dash Highway Patrolman Issue

[Maximvs]

Greetings all, I am a brand new member and am hoping to get some ideas or advice about an issue I am having with my S&W Model 28 no dash Highway Patrolman revolver: When I attempt to slowly pull the trigger in DA mode, or slowly thumb cock, I get about a 1/4in of movement and then solid lock. Trigger/hammer will no longer move to the rear. If I let hammer back down from this position I can usually cock or pull trigger normally. If I cock the piece or pull trigger in a normal speed I may or my not get a smooth trigger pull or I will feel a catch in the action. However at other times I will get completely normal, smooth trigger/hammer movement and smooth action regardless of speed doing it - and then at some point the problem will return. I have noticed obvious shiny wear on the left side of the trigger where it rotates up into the frame and believe this is totally related. S&W gave me no suggestions as to problem just to send in for inspection so thought I would pick some brains here before going that route. Although my knowledge of timing issues is not the most thorough - the revolver cylinder locks up tight every time and there is no endshake.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Welcome aboard!

Perhaps an issue with the hammer block?. Does it make a difference if the barrel is tilted up or down?

Assuming there is no problem with the hand and or ratchet, I would take off the sideplate and look for broken springs, or obvious excessive wear, burrs, or damage to the linkages and lockwork.

At the same time, look for any rust causing binding. It may just need some polishing and lubrication.

 

[Coyote3855]

Nightlord has good advice. However, I recommend you do some research and look at some videos before you tackle removing the sideplate. Be sure you have gunsmith quality screwdrivers so as not to bugger the screws and don't pry it. With the screws out, a sharp rap on the opposite side with a plastic hammer or screwdriver handle will usually dislodge the plate. It's been a while since I've done one. Just take it slow and be careful. Easy to damage the screws or the plate if you get heavy handed.

 

[Maximvs]

Nightlord has good advice. However, I recommend you do some research and look at some videos before you tackle removing the sideplate. Be sure you have gunsmith quality screwdrivers so as not to bugger the screws and don't pry it. With the screws out, a sharp rap on the opposite side with a plastic hammer or screwdriver handle will usually dislodge the plate. It's been a while since I've done one. Just take it slow and be careful. Easy to damage the screws or the plate if you get heavy handed.

Have taken off sideplate and done a light inspection to check for any obvious (to me) signs of damage or signs of just grit or gunk that might be moving around in there - nothing I can see and I have worked the trigger/action upside down, sideways, while shaking the whole gun etc. The wear on the trigger side intrigues me but I am not confident enough in my abilities to start taking pieces out to check that deep into the internals. Pulling the trigger and cocking the hammer with the sideplate off resulted in smooth operation however this cant be considered anything because as i indicated in my original post the gun WILL function normally at times...!

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

When you have the pistol fully re-assembled and it still exhibits this flaw, try this next.

Try smacking the left side of the closed cylinder and see if it continues.

If it does, open the cylinder and close it with greater than your normal force and see if the condition persists.

I had a vintage Smith that behaved as yours does and it was an issue of the cylinder not always completing every aspect of closing and successfully locking every time. The problem was always displayed greatest when slow cycling either the hammer or the trigger as you note.

Todd.

 

[Riomouse911]

I had a 686+ that had a slightly warped crane, so when it was fired a bit and got warm the gun would start to catch on a DA pull, then after one or two more shots it would lock up completely and not fire. If nothing else works that may be something to check out (This fix will most likely require a trip back to S&W).

Good luck, and when you find out, let us know what the issue was .

Stay safe.

 

[Maximvs]

When you have the pistol fully re-assembled and it still exhibits this flaw, try this next.

Try smacking the left side of the closed cylinder and see if it continues.

If it does, open the cylinder and close it with greater than your normal force and see if the condition persists.

I had a vintage Smith that behaved as yours does and it was an issue of the cylinder not always completing every aspect of closing and successfully locking every time. The problem was always displayed greatest when slow cycling either the hammer or the trigger as you note.

Todd.

I am a longtime revolver shooter so taking the sideplate off and looking things over doesn't present any problems, can also rule out the warped crane theory - In checking the the cylinder opening and not latching fully on closing theory, I took my revolver out of it's case and now, as has happened in the past - it is completely functioning smoothly and normally even though when I put it away earlier I was unable to cock it! I removed sideplate yet again and and am seeing no rust, burrs, binding or anything else I can observe without removing parts - and I did open and close the cylinder mulitiple times to see if I could cause the malfunction to occur. I have sat and dry fired, open and closed cylinder, cocked and decocked for about an hour and have had nothing but a smooth, fully functioning revolver! Something is def going on inside this gun and at this point I'm ready to embrace superstition and call it a Gremlin!!!

 

[Maximvs]

I am a longtime revolver shooter so taking the sideplate off and looking things over doesn't present any problems, can also rule out the warped crane theory - In checking the the cylinder opening and not latching fully on closing theory, I took my revolver out of it's case and now, as has happened in the past - it is completely functioning smoothly and normally even though when I put it away earlier I was unable to cock it! I removed sideplate yet again and and am seeing no rust, burrs, binding or anything else I can observe without removing parts - and I did open and close the cylinder mulitiple times to see if I could cause the malfunction to occur. I have sat and dry fired, open and closed cylinder, cocked and decocked for about an hour and have had nothing but a smooth, fully functioning revolver! Something is def going on inside this gun and at this point I'm ready to embrace superstition and call it a Gremlin!!!

Without being an expert - I am heavily theorizing now that something inside that I cannot see - like oily grit or grime has gotten inside where I can't see and is gumming something up and maybe just working itself free - I'm putting it away and will check again after a week and see if laying it on it's side in it's case might be allowing dirty oil to pool up and gum up the works. I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS! This was a great welcome to this forum. Thank you! And please, if anyone has further suggestions or advice I am all ears

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I'd take a can of brake cleaner, open it up and give it a really good hosing out. Then put the Rem oil to it. I've not had that problem with my 28 no dash but it sounds like something is amiss in there.
Do you see any hard rubs on anything other than the trigger? Anything on the frame sides?

 

[shoebox1.1]

I’d like to see a pic of this patrolman and I want one someday!

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I’d like to see a pic of this patrolman and I want one someday!

Heres mine, its a dash-2

Theyre pretty awesome.
Mine did have excessive endshake when I got it, easily shimmed up. Didnt have any indexing problems, though. I added the Target grips as the original Magnas dont give a whole lot of control when firing magnums.

Im thinking about putting the Magnas back on, though, as they are correct for (and look better on, IMO) a 28, and I only ever shoot .38s in it anyway.

 

[stonebuster]

Does this occur with the gun loaded but not unloaded? If that's the case, I'd check and thoroughly clean under the ejector star and also make sure the cylinder face is clean and not binding on the barrel. If there's crud under the ejector star it may be causing the cartridges to stand too proud and bind on the recoil shield.

 

[Tallball]

It's been a while and I don't remember the details very well, but...

I once had a revolver that had an ejector rod that was just barely warped. It would function normally most of the time, but if the ejector rod was turned to exactly the right spot, the revolver hesitated a little bit when I cocked it.

That's probably irrelevant, but you never know...

 

[Maximvs]

It's been a while and I don't remember the details very well, but...

I once had a revolver that had an ejector rod that was just barely warped. It would function normally most of the time, but if the ejector rod was turned to exactly the right spot, the revolver hesitated a little bit when I cocked it.

That's probably irrelevant, but you never know...

Thanks for the advice Talliball - There is the slightest amount of warp - nearly imperceptible in the ejector rod of my revolver. The piece is 62 years old and it is obvious a previous owner had removed the rod with a pair of pliers at one time as the checkering at the end of the rod is mashed a little. However I have tested your theory by rotating the rod degree by degree and I still have complete, normal function at this time. I really think something inside the gun was causing this and somehow my intense testing, fiddling and working the action as somehow 'fixed' the problem. Thanks again!

 

[Maximvs]

It's been a while and I don't remember the details very well, but...

I once had a revolver that had an ejector rod that was just barely warped. It would function normally most of the time, but if the ejector rod was turned to exactly the right spot, the revolver hesitated a little bit when I cocked it.

That's probably irrelevant, but you never know...

Thanks for the advice Talliball - There is the slightest amount of warp - nearly imperceptible in the ejector rod of my revolver. The piece is 62 years old and it is obvious a previous owner had removed the rod with a pair of pliers at one time as the checkering at the end of the rod is mashed a little. However I have tested your theory by rotating the rod degree by degree and I still have complete, normal function at this time. I really think something inside the gun was causing this and somehow my intense testing, fiddling and working the action as somehow 'fixed' the problem. Thanks again!

I’d like to see a pic of this patrolman and I want one someday!

When I figure out how to do it - I'll get one up for ya!

 

[shuvelrider]

Did you remove the grips and check the mainspring?, could be something out of place, broke or cracked. It all functions off the mainspring.

 

[ontarget]

I have a brand new 642 S&W that failed after the 6th shot. I popped the side plate to investigate and found a very small sliver of metal that was preventing the hand from engaging the ratchet.
Moral of the story is that sometimes it doesn't take much to cause big problems.
It's possible that while you were inspecting and/or cleaning it out you removed the offending debris and never even saw it come out.

 

[Maximvs]

I have a brand new 642 S&W that failed after the 6th shot. I popped the side plate to investigate and found a very small sliver of metal that was preventing the hand from engaging the ratchet.
Moral of the story is that sometimes it doesn't take much to cause big problems.
It's possible that while you were inspecting and/or cleaning it out you removed the offending debris and never even saw it come out.

I'm leaning heavily toward this theory - I've messed with it off and on all day long an no problems whatsoever. In the past the issue would return at some point but so far so good this time. Thank you!

 

[Maximvs]

Did you remove the grips and check the mainspring?, could be something out of place, broke or cracked. It all functions off the mainspring.

Have done as thorough a visual inspection of the internals as my knowledge allows - and without removing any parts and have seen no obvious issues of any kind.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

As you say, your no dash Model 28 62 years old. The Model 28-1 came along in 1960.

Although normally, surfaces of parts that rub together for a long time will smooth themselves out over time, sometimes a burr will be raised.

Quite a few years ago my Model 19-3 that I bought brand new in 1975 developed a hitch in its get along. I took it to an expert smith, and he found a small burr that had raised itself up and was causing a problem when cocking the gun double action. It probably took him all of five minutes to smooth out the burr and the Model 19 has been fine ever since. Sorry, I don't remember exactly where the burr was.

Anyway, you may have dislodged the problem, whatever it was, when you took your Model 28 apart.

If the problem recurs you might look for a burr somewhere on one of the surfaces between all those parts.

I have a couple of Dash 2 Model 28s myself.






I really like this one. No, that is not the original finish, it has been bead blasted and refinished. I like it anyway. The grips are certainly original.

 

[Maximvs]

Howdy

As you say, your no dash Model 28 62 years old. The Model 28-1 came along in 1960.

Although normally, surfaces of parts that rub together for a long time will smooth themselves out over time, sometimes a burr will be raised.

Quite a few years ago my Model 19-3 that I bought brand new in 1975 developed a hitch in its get along. I took it to an expert smith, and he found a small burr that had raised itself up and was causing a problem when cocking the gun double action. It probably took him all of five minutes to smooth out the burr and the Model 19 has been fine ever since. Sorry, I don't remember exactly where the burr was.

Anyway, you may have dislodged the problem, whatever it was, when you took your Model 28 apart.

If the problem recurs you might look for a burr somewhere on one of the surfaces between all those parts.

I have a couple of Dash 2 Model 28s myself.

View attachment 895630




I really like this one. No, that is not the original finish, it has been bead blasted and refinished. I like it anyway. The grips are certainly original.

View attachment 895631

Those are nice! Mine is a 4" model in quite nice condition as well - as soon as I can figger out how to upload a picture on here I will post a pic of it. Have gotten a lot of good suggestions and advice on my problem - the confounding thing has been the switch back and forth between having the issue and then perfect function; Seems to me a burr would cause an issue until it wore down - not cause an issue for awhile, stop, then come back unless I'm misunderstanding that type of a problem altogether which is certainly possible since I shoot them far more than I tinker with them! Thank you for the advice! My revolver continues to function perfectly and I think it's okay unless there IS something rattling around in there that is catching up on something and has either fallen out or is just waiting to catch on something again down the road again.. fingers crossed.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

The top one is my 1958 no dash and the bottom one is a 28-2 that is pretty much unfired. I shot the top one a lot and it really doesn't show it.
If your ejector is bent and your shooting mixed brass that could be part or all of it, definitely. If you haven't taken the internal parts out and checked them for burs or debris, you could still have a problem, time will tell.

 

[eastbank]

I think they are for the dollar the best heavy framed revolvers ever made in .357.

 

[Mike C2]

I have a pre-model Highway Patrolman from the late in the first year or early in the second that used to do the same thing. Mine was cured with an endshake shim. If you have fore and aft movement of the cylinder (end shake) it changes the relationship between the hand and the star wheel on the ejector. On my gun, all ills were solved with a single shim and the gun smoothie DA completely restored.

 

[Maximvs]

Udate on my no dash Highway Patrolman issue: Figured it out! It has the WRONG hammer block installed! It is too short and depending on the angle the revolver is held will slip back and catch and not allow the cylinder to be turned. I have owned this revolver for ten years with no hammer block safety! Is there ANY POSSIBLE reason besides complete ignorance that this would be done????? I removed the part (functions normally now of course) but if I shoot it I will keep that chamber empty till I get a new one. Unbelievable. Bought it at Cabelas - anyone have a similar situation?