No landline= safety problem?

[ForumSurfer]

I have no interest in a cell phone

I have actually been lying in a ditch with a broken femur, broken ankle and a broken arm with internal bleeding. I was immobile, lying in tall grass and my motorcycle was in tall grass. If the driver had performed a hit and run, I would have been left lying there invisible to passerby's. I hate to think what might have happened if I had been left there with my extensive injuries. The bone fragments nearly severed my femoral artery, so dragging myself with my one good arm could have gotten me in even worse trouble.

I recommend a reconsideration, as it is nice to dial 911 and to have someone locate you.

 

[ForumSurfer]

FWIW, if you are using a VOIP phone through your internet service provider...it pays to make sure the location service works. When I install VOIP systems in businesses, I make test 911 phone calls to insure the location is correct. %25 or so are incorrect when I call, and I have to make phone calls to the ISP or telco to correct this.

If you are concerned about being charged for a prank 911 call, contact your local sheriff department ahead of time and inform them of your intentions. They will be more than happy to help. I've never had a prank charge or a 911 service that wouldn't help ensure this critical function of public safety was in working order.

 

[Ben86]

The only reason I have a landline is because I don't get reception at my house (out in the sticks). Now that you don't need a landline to get dsl there really is no point in them if you get reliable cell phone reception.

Most cell phones have a "tracking feature" that can be used by 911.

 

[ForumSurfer]

reliable cell phone reception.

Most cell phones have a "tracking feature" that can be used by 911.

Again, that depends on the feature coverage. You're either going to be tracked by GPS or cell tower triangulation. Triangulation can be accurate down to 50meters or so, or as far off as 3-500+ meters off, all depending on how many towers are able to participate in the triangulation. Regardless of what coverage you may be getting on your phone, you won't know what 911 is receiving until you actually call. I get 2 bars of 3g at my house. When last I tested from home (while doing contract work for a center), the information my carrier sent to 911 was not GPS, it was triangulated and a little off. Far enough off that I could see potential of the police kicking in the wrong door (if I had neighbors with 200m) if I couldn't speak my address to the 911 operator. If i was in an apartment complex...wow.

Still, I'm OK with just a cell phone and no land line. You just have to realize that cell phone's limited ability and potential for miscalculations. Just like my concealed carry piece...the most effective part of it (or ineffective) is the user.

 

[swinokur]

I have Vonage VOIP. They have a web based dashboard control panel where you tell them where your VOIP adapter is located and I guess they transmit some kind of caller id info to the 911 center. If you move the adapter you must update the new location so the 911 folks know where you are. I am not sure how cable providers provide this info, IIRC correctly there is a law that they must do this.

 

[MisterMike]

I have Vonage VOIP. They have a web based dashboard control panel where you tell them where your VOIP adapter is located and I guess they transmit some kind of caller id info to the 911 center.

Ooma's E911 service is set up like this, too. You register your address online, and it's transmitted to emergency services whenever you dial 911.

 

[NAK]

It is not that uncommon for cell phones to be useless for extended periods.
The phone company generally has extended battery backup times in local nodes and generation at major switches. Cell phone towers may have as little as 15 minutes of battery backup Local extenders/repeaters, such as you see hanging on street light poles, rely strictly on utility power.

Cell systems are easily overwhelmed, a limited number of phones can be supported on any given tower, so even if power and infrastructure are OK, you may not be able to call out. I was in a tornado several years ago. I was uninjured, but there was damage to our building and several deaths within a 1/2 mile. It was over four hours before I could make or receive a cell call. My SO was 250 miles away, watching live TV footage of the damage to the building I was in. That would have been a long four hours without a land line.

All that said, I dropped my land line 2 years ago. Everyone has to determine what is important to them...you gotta be able to sleep at night.

 

[mustang_steve]

Regarding the potential loss of land lines themselves...this will become a moot point eventually for one reason: Voice over IP (VOIP)

For those who aren't in the know, VOIP is basically a way of using your internet connection for phone service. Skype, Magicjack, Vonage, FIOS, and a few other companies all use this technology to bring land-lines to the home. Most large corporations have already embraced it, if you use a Cisco or Avaya phone at work, you're definately using VOIP.

The thing is, plain old telephone service (POTS) is an antiquated, expensive and inflexible beast, requiring very expensive and very specialized hardware. Computer networks however have a lower equipment cost as the many of the products involved could be used at varying levels of use. Backbone routers being one exception (and they are VERY pricey, but still comparable to a telephone switch of the same scale).

I do forsee cellular service in the future being VOIP based as well, as having a medium that can handle multiple communication types is ideal from an infrastructure standpoint. this does mean that GPS functionality will have to be implemented in near every device for sake of e911 of course.

As for radios....there used to be, but there may still be, some cell phones that have FRS radios built into them. Sanyo made a ruggedized phone for Sprint that was like this...I used to own that model up until I moved to Florida (Sprint service in my area is terrible, so I changed carriers).

 

[Kleanbore]

Post #58

Good input.

 

[Dnaltrop]

Just my extra .02 on tower triangulation.

I rarely turn on the GPS on my phone, so in most emergencies it won't be coming into play.

Triangulation on the Family Tracker pings us within 3 yards once in a while, but within 100 yards or less consistently. It was handy one day when my child had lost her phone, we watched it drive all over town, to end up in the School bus yard. A call to their dispatch had it in her Morning driver's hands the next day, waiting for her.

Treat the cell, SMS etc like any other permanent record/entry into your life

Side note, and I can't stress this enough, a CODED lock on your entry screen...4 digits can keep some stranger from going through your life if you leave it somewhere.

it may be a bit of a pain, but imagine someone...

using geotagged photos in your phone that have the lat/longitude to track down your friends, family etc.

Using your phone records, SMS/voicemail to see that someone isn't at home.

 

[mustang_steve]

Agreed, password protecting a phone is crucial. It's surprising how much info you can get from a recovered cellphone. Keep in mind if they use Facebook or yahoo mail, they're going to be still logged into that stuff....so serious privacy invasion if your phone is lost.

 

[Boberama]

I don't have a cell.

What is it about this repellent little gadget that so abominates, that so offends the imagination?

It has destroyed manners. It has destroyed public space. It has compromised privacy. It has enslaved and mastered those who think themselves its master.

I was given one, and I never took it out of the package. An LG Dare.
Straight into the trash.

I've never been given one of the little buggers again.

 

[Boberama]

And I still use a rotary phone.

 

[Manco]

And I still use a rotary phone.

And some folks still use rotary handguns.

 

[Kleanbore]

Some of the responses have veered somewhat from the original question (danger in not having a land line) to the pros and cons of having cell phones.

That's seems OK to me, in that currently, cell phones and land lines are two sides of the same coin for most of us, but if the OP or anyone else feels strongly that we ought to have a separate thread about the S&T aspects of cell phones, let us know. I don't see that there has been one in the last two-plus years.

Discussion of cell phone usage, coverage, etc. is useful insofar as it relates to S&T, but as much as I also dislike aspects of our rude cell phone society, lets' try to stay on point.

What not to say in public from a security standpoint would be on point. Irritating people in line for the register would not be, unless one can make a connection.

Again, should you all (the social "Y'all", not a unanimous opinion) want a separate thread, I'm all ears. Don't like polls much, so I'll just listen to the discussion.

To complete the thread veer or to toss in something for a new one, I thought this might be worth sharing:

More than a dozen years ago, some volunteers in Dade County, FL noted a marked decrease in crime in some neighborhoods in which they carried cell phones; they thought there was a deterrent effect even from the potential use of cell phones, they opined that people were more willing to report crimes; and they observe faster response to in progress incidents.

http://americancityandcounty.com/mag/government_cell_phones_reduce/

I've wondered about that for some time. The article about Dade County is old; I saw my first car phone only about a decade before it was written. Someone recently said that computer and communication technology advances are measured in intervals like dog years.

From a personal point of view, I really do not like not having a charged cell phone handy all the time

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would echo Kleanbore's sentiment.

If someone would like to start a thread on the tactical uses of a cell phone, there really are some less obvious uses that have been developed as they become more common

 

[mustang_steve]

I've seen this thread as a strategy and tactics discussion of having viable communication methods in event of a situation where you need emergency units dispatched (police, fire, EMS, animal control...think florida and gators, etc).

Land lines are still viable, but the thing is, you can get a cellphone with 500 minutes per month (no contract) for the cost of a landline....and most people will not use all 500 minutes. That's why landlines are becoming less common, the technology is getting cheaper than the old hotness.

 

[atlp99]

VOIP on cell phones

Mobile VOIP is still a few years away. The current air interface of the networks can not handle mobile VOIP. Current cell networks carry voice over one connection and data on a second connection if on a 3G network, older networks carry both voice and data over the same connection. This is why 3G handsets get worse battery life, but 2G handsets can not transmit voice and data at the same time.

The 4th generation networks that Verizon, ATT, and T-Mobile will be migrating to (LTE) is capable of mobile VOIP. It will be at least 2 more years before national LTE networks have consistent coverage. The big advantage of VOIP on cell networks is that it handles spectrum more efficiently, allowing more connections on a tower.

 

[9MMare]

I switched to a cable-based land line several years ago.
The only phone in the house that works when the power goes out is my cell phone.

Even the cordless phones didn't work when I had a real phone line when the power was off though.

rc

Same here. I find the Internet phone service very good, but useless when power out. I keep both cell and reg. phone in my saferoom/bedroom.

 

[9MMare]

I have no interest in a cell phone, but -- I am thinking of putting a CB radio in my truck, or getting a handheld model.

Any suggestions?

It's interesting to hear a few people thinking this, only because I see a direct correlation between safety and carrying a cell and safety and carrying a gun.

I dont care for my cell phone. I dont like to chat on it, I've gotten used to it and find it very useful for coordinating plans with people, and I find texting really useful.

However I got it for emergencies, period. Didnt really want one, but completely saw the advantages *in the event of an emergency* And with that reasoning behind it, I made a commitment to carry it everywhere with me, all the time possible. Because *you never know when you'll have an emergency.* It was a hassel at first, but I made some compromises and adjusted to it (I prefer to carry it on my waistband but sometimes in a purse).

More than a decade later I found myself dealing with the same commitments re: carrying my gun. Exact same reasoning, questions, and adaptations. (But lots more training!).

You can set it down somewhere? Sure, but when do you have your home landline out somewhere with you at all?

So that's just my 2 cents worth on cells. They are a tool, just like anything else. Doesnt mean everyone has to carry one. Just seems sensible to me...and it only takes one time for it to make the difference between life/injury and death.

 

[Pilgram]

My 2 cents ...

I live in rural Colorado where Qwest -- the world's worst telephone company -- collects $64 million in giverment (not a mis-spelling) subsidies for service to high cost, rural areas and completely botches its responsibilities. Qwest service is so crappy where I live that a rainstorm or snow floods the local pedestal and knocks out service altogether.

That's why its stock is $4.

Believing that a landline provides some kind of extra security is not true if Qwest is your service provider.

Even if your landline works, 911 is a joke in rural areas. Maybe the Sheriff shows up 30 minutes after you call. Maybe, if they can find your address. Maybe if your address is in their outdated GPS databases. Maybe, if one of the two deputies on duty in the county is not occupied with other duties.

I've used both cell phone and VoIP with varying experience. Both crap out when there is a power failure (a power failure to the cell tower and/or a power failure to your house).

The best security is not to depend on 911.

 

[Mamertine]

I have T Mobile and recently moved and now only have a cell phone. When I went to the T Mobile site to change my address one of the address fields was something like 911/emergency address. Which I gather is the address where you want police/fire/ems to go to when they get an emergency call from that phone number. I assume that my address now shows up if I were to dial 911.

 

[mustang_steve]

Yep, that's what that is...I left it blank as I will give them the address or details to guide the emergency crews to where I am if I need to call.

I prefer they not assume anything.

 

[rscalzo]

do the police have a database that would show my address? If not, how would the dispatcher even know what police office to dispatch?

I can only speak for our PSAP in northern NJ. Cellphone 911 calls are routed through a state or county agency into our dispatch. We cannot tell your location on the ANI/ALI display used for land line 911 calls.

Depending on your location, you have no idea where your call will go into. Much depends on the terrain and system use at the time. I've been in Canada on the St. Lawrence and had call go into NY state because of the cell tower location across the river. During 9-11, we had calls from trapped office workers in the towers coming in because the load on the system keeps pushing calls off to other dispatch centers. Years back we had a train derailment on the NE line of NJ transit. No way to find them quickly due to the isolated location except by the use of air units.

So the bottom line is be ready to give the location in some way if at all possible. By the way, this can also be an issue with broadband based voice systems. No idea of the Magic Jack but I've heard too many negative issues with them but have no direct experience. In some cases the syb must set up the location info with the ISP.

I assume that my address now shows up if I were to dial 911.

That would mean that if you dial 911 from another location, your home address pops up. Not the way it works. If the dispatch has the proper equipment, it pinpoints your location using the gps chip in the phone.

 

[bobby68]

not sure if anyone ever answered this guys question

"Do criminals even bother cutting the landlines now that everyone and their dog has a cell? "

i lived in an apartment above a check cashing shop. One evening someone broke the windows into both downstairs stores. We heard the noise, but thought it must be the other residential neighbors thinking nobody would be stupid enough to breakinto the storefront on the busiest street in town.

Hours later, i realized the power was off (we often use headlamps at night so don't even bother with turning on overhead light). The burglar had cut the power and phone line, we believe intending to disable the alarm to the check cashing business.

I called police to inform them of my suspicions that someone had been outside breaking into the business.I had to call the police three times to get them to respond. They only came after i first went outside to find the various evidence from vehicles strewn about the ground and cut out phone lines.

The point is that yes, they do still cut phone lines... i'm not sure if they realized we lived above.

I'd heard noise in the back parking lot, went out to check and saw nothing. a few minutes later i heard the alarm sound at the closed burger joint half a block away. I believe it was the same badguy spooked by my appearance, either trying to hide/break into another store, or cause confusion by sounding another alarm.