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No modern straight pulls?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Big_E, Feb 21, 2010.

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  1. Big_E

    Big_E Member

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    I was pondering this when I was bored the other day. Every bolt action on the market is a turn bolt, whereas straight pull bolt actions are reserved to the Ross Rifle, 1895 Lee Navy (?? not sure) and K31.

    It seems that with a straight pull you wouldn't need to worry about left hand/right hand models and can provide faster follow up shots than the turn bolt. I know the Ross had problems with the bolt flying out IIRC, and the K31 was the only successful one and is pretty much one of the most accurate mil surps out there.

    So why have we not seen straight pulls on commercial hunting rifles or "tactical" rifles. Is it because there were so few designed that many people don't know about them or does a turn bolt offer something better?
     
  2. bhk

    bhk Member

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    Probably the machining required to make a SAFE straight pull would cost much more than that of a SAFE turn bolt. I also think the camming action of a turn bolt to be advantagous to accuracy. This month's American Rifleman describes a Ross straight pull just given to the NRA museum that lost its bolt out the rear and severely injured the shooter. Good read.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Check out the Browning T-Bolt .22 rifle.
    Also the Browning Acera center-fire.

    And the Blaser R93, LRS 2, and Tactical 2.

    rc
     
  4. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Yep, the two I know of are the Browning T-Bolt and the Blaser
     
  5. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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  6. bernie

    bernie Member

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    Mauser made one as well, I had a buddy that had one in .308 and it was very accurate and reliable as a hammer.
     
  7. Big_E

    Big_E Member

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    Yes, the article from American Rifleman helped stir my brain into asking this.

    I also know of the Browning Acera but I did not know that Sig Sauer has a rifle made by Blaser.

    I think it is a very cool design and I know the only other straight pulls are the biathlon rifles used right now.
     
  8. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    The Mauser in question is the M96 FYI

    1996 by the way
     
  9. MikeJackmin

    MikeJackmin Member

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    Just take the piston out of an SKS and you are good to go.
     
  10. rust collector

    rust collector Member

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    Isn't every gas operated auto a straight pull if you remove piston/tappet/op rod or turn off the gas? Ask any Yugo SKS owner. Takes some juice to open them up, too.

    What about the Fortner toggle action biathlon rifles we've been watching lately? For most, seems to be an answer to a question not being asked.
     
  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Maybe the question should be asked. The straight pull design offers superior speed over traditional turnbolts without the jamming and extra weight of a semi. I believe these are more popular in Europe than in the US. Most folks have never even tried one.
     
  12. gb0399

    gb0399 Member

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    are there any bolt guns with a "rolling locking block" like the mp-5?
     
  13. Runningman

    Runningman Member

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    They have, but no one bought them. Just not a popular design in the US I guess. I have a Mauser M96 American 6.5 x 55 in a straight pull. Bought it new around 1996 - 1997 for around $450. They only imported these models for about 1 1/2 years than discontinued them due to slow sales.
     
  14. rust collector

    rust collector Member

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    I have 7 of them, and have fired 6 (the M95 isn't a sterling example of the breed). Pleasant enough, but I'm not sure there is less jamming than a semi or less weight than a semi. Possibly more jamming and weight than with a Mauser type bolt.

    I suspect that most folks attracted to turnbolt rifles are looking for accuracy, reliability, reasonable weight and good value. I'm not sure the straight pull makes the value cut.

    I'll sure agree that it would be nice to have more SP options. The Sauer, if I recall correctly, was a beauty with articulated bolt lugs but at a serious cost.

    How have T-bolts been selling lately? We all wished we had one when they stopped production (in the 80s?), but if we had bought them production probably wouldn't have been stopped. Have we bought them since?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  15. Savage99

    Savage99 Member

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    I never wanted a straight pull bolt action rifle. While I do say I like the 'machinery' of say a pre 64 M70 and like to work the bolt somehow a straight pull gives me the creeps.

    I am more of a single shot, aim it well type of rifleman anyway.

    To each his own.
     
  16. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I disagree with this assessment.

    The straight pull suffers from all the foibles of a semiautomatic in that is LACKS the powerful camming force on chambering or primary extraction of a turn bolt and unlike a autoloader you don't have a powerful gas operated system doing the chambering or extraction for you. You only have the strength of your arm which is considerably less powerful.

    Anything that can potentially jam an automatic will jam a straight pull too. The only difference is you don't have the bolt inertia to jam that dubious round home or the gas driven system to rip it out..........

    As to the speed issue compared to turnbolts, having used both actions I don't see any great speed advantage. If anything when compared to the British SMLE it's a good deal slower when you allow for reloads (5 rds vs 10)
     
  17. Caliper_Mi

    Caliper_Mi Member

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    What about pump action? That's a straight pull of a sorts, and doesn't even require moving your hand to an operating handle so even faster follow-ups. The Benelli Nova even has a rotating bolt head with two locking lugs.
     
  18. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    It's slower than a semi, but I'm not sure what you mean by "less powerful." I've never had a jam with any straight pull, but I've had many with Mauser bolts that required a hammer to open.

    As for being slower than the SMLE, you've picked what's probably the fastest of all bolt action rifles. Even so a modern straight pull such as a K-31 is very fast. Faster than traditional Mauser 98 actions for certain.
     
  19. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    True.

    One range I used to compete at, it has an elevated long range firing point. Brass ejected forward of the firing point would fall a great distance. Not being a mountain goat, I decided to convert my 308 Garand to a single shot and save my brass. Shooting my 22 rounds in 22 minutes, prone with a sling, I can tell you I missed decent primary extraction. If the round was a little hot, it took a heck of a jeck to get the bolt open. Even normal rounds took a good tug.

    I have a M1895 and a K31. The 1895 requires a strong pull and push to make the mechanism function. The K31 is actually quite nice. But my loads are nice too.

    While I can really rock and roll on my K31, I would have a hard time saying a straight pull really improves accuracy against time. My M70's are very slick and fast in rapid fire, I have shot any number of cleans. To improve my rapid fire scores, I don't need a straight pull, I need a semi auto. Not having to break position to grab a bolt handle, that leads to extra tight groups in rapid fire.
     
  20. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Keep in mind the M1895 is a very primitive design.
     
  21. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    If you have a Yugo SKS you don't even need to do that!

    Or remove the gas plug from your M1 rifle :)
     
  22. Hatterasguy

    Hatterasguy Member

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    I like them but I like oddball designs.
     
  23. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

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    I was watching the Olympic biathalon match today, and I would swear the .22s they were using were straight-pulls.
     
  24. Runningman

    Runningman Member

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    You seen right they are straight pull 22s.
     
  25. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    I had a K31 for a while. It was a fun oddity of a gun. It was accurate, and I never had any problems with extraction. To answer the original question about why there aren't more straight pull models around, I think it has to do with cost. The K31 bolt assembly was a Swiss-watchmaker nightmare of machining. There were a dozen or so precision machined parts that made up the bolt. Modern turn bolts are infinitely simpler. Also, a turn bolt is a much sturdier design. The K31s wouldn't tolerate the pressures most modern turnbolts would before failing.

    As a footnote, the K31 was hell-columbia to put a scope on; it ejected almost straight up, requiring a cantilevered mount, and ejected brass still rattled off the bottom of the scope.
     
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