no need to carry anymore...

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aren't these guys just your hero's or what? For the OT discussion, do you feel safer with such firepower around? I mean, we don't have to carry anymore if these guys are all over right?

Decent article too, show of military force to deter would be terrorists, man these guys are on point, really puttin the hammer down on the bad guys. I just wish they'd hurry up and get to my town before it's too late.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/con...e outside a midtown Manhattan office building.

(I'm trying to get the picture to work.... :( help appreciated here, I used to know how to do that but...alas....efforts.....futile........

article HERE (popular mechanics)

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/2818211.html?page=1

st

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:uhoh:
----------------(page one)
Meet The New Supercops
Protecting America's cities, ports, borders and airports requires new technology and new tactics. Here's a look at who's doing it right.
BY BRAD REAGAN
Photographs by Alex Majoli
Published in the June 2006 issue.



A heavily armed Hercules team makes a show of force outside a midtown Manhattan office building.


No one sees them coming. There are no flashing lights, no sirens. The black Suburban simply glides out of Fifth Avenue traffic and pulls into a no-parking zone in front of the Empire State Building. Moments later, four men spill out in combat helmets and heavy body armor: Two carry submachine guns; the others, snub-nosed shotguns.

Camera-toting tourists stop jabbering and stare at this intimidating new presence, their faces a mixture of curiosity and fear. Even jaded New Yorkers, many of whom work inside the midtown Manhattan landmark, look impressed.

A stone's throw down the sidewalk, Abad Nieves watches the scene unfold. Nieves is a detective with the Intelligence Division of the New York Police Department (NYPD). Casually clad in slacks and a black leather jacket, he monitors the response of people loitering in the area. Is anyone making notes or videotaping? Does anyone seem especially startled by the out-of-the-blue appearance of a heavily armed NYPD squad?

On this day, Nieves doesn't see anything overly suspicious, but he is pleased that the deployment created a strong impression. Known as a Hercules team, it makes multiple appearances around the city each day. The locations are chosen either in response to specific intelligence or simply to provide a show of force at high-profile sites.

"The response we usually get is, 'Holy s---!'" Nieves says. "That's the reaction we want. We are in the business of scaring people--we just want to scare the right people."

The people the NYPD hopes to scare are the ideological brothers of the Islamic extremists who have successfully attacked New York City twice in the past 13 years. To stop these terrorists, the department fundamentally changed the way it protects the city after 9/11.

At 51,000 strong, the NYPD employs more than 1.5 times as many people as the FBI, and its anti-terrorism initiative is a synchronized effort between the department's Intelligence Division and the Counter Terrorism Bureau. The Intelligence Division coordinates the Hercules teams, which are composed of specialist cops rotated in from throughout the force. The Counter Terrorism Bureau takes on a more focused role, functioning as the department's think tank on terrorism prevention and overseeing various subdepartments such as the NYPD/FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force. The effort even stretches far from New York, with nine liaisons assigned to such overseas hot spots as Tel Aviv, Israel; Amman, Jordan; and London.

New York has become a testing ground for urban terrorism prevention in a major city, integrating new thinking and sophisticated technology into every level of the force. And, the lessons learned are beginning to influence police forces in other cities. In 2004, Los Angeles launched Operation Archangel to identify possible targets and to develop protection plans for them, and the Chicago Police Department earlier this year began providing five days of terrorism training to all of its 13,500 officers. Several big cities, including Washington, D.C., Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Chicago, even formed a network to gather and share intelligence--an interagency version of what New York built in-house. The NYPD provides valuable consultation to many other local police departments and even state and federal agencies, from the Department of Defense to the Illinois State Police. In fact, international police forces from the Netherlands, Singapore and other countries have sent representatives to the NYPD to learn its tactics.

"Clearly, New York is way in front on this," says Brian Michael Jenkins, a terrorism expert with the Rand Corp. "As the threat gets more diffused, we are going to have less of the kind of intelligence that can be picked up by the feds. We are dealing now with threats that are deliberately operating under the radar. Therefore, we have to aim the radar lower, to the local level."

Although there have been no attacks in New York since 9/11, police officials work under the assumption that Al Qaeda and its sympathizers are constantly plotting against the city. As an example, they point to a 2002 plan by an Ohio truck driver named Iyman Faris to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge by cutting its cables. Hercules teams are frequently stationed on the bridge, and the department keeps a boat in the waters beneath it at all times. Faris, who later pleaded guilty to aiding Al Qaeda, ultimately called off the operation with a coded message reading: "The weather is too hot."

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Kee-ripes! I see this in my town and I think the terrorists are attacking!

Fear is a strong motivator in people. The cops and the "terrorists" are calculating the same reaction in people by their actions. This seems a misguided idea, but then I don't live in NY. If each the "terrorists" and the cops are intending to cause fear and alarm, doesn't that make them both "terrorists?" To rule by fear and intimidation?

Yeesh!
 
I've heard of this before. I'd mainly be concerned about deploying 'SWAT' type teams in places that they aren't needed. Men running around with SMGs is dangerous. It will only take one of them to have an ND during a fake raid to cause trouble.
 
Holy crap...

I realize this seems tinfoil hat of me, but this reads like the idea is to desensitize residents to raids of this nature. To a potentially coming police state.

Get the public used to it.

Going in to various places with machine guns and body armor is just business as usual folks.

Geeze, I need to lay off the tinfoil.

<disclaimer>
The above is a kneejerk reaction with very little informed opinion.
</disclaimer>
 
No, sig, you're somewhat right.

They're using a show of force to try and scare people into complying with their wishes. Its usually called saber rattling. The fact that this is a state government that is saber rattling towards their own citizens is very scary. Even if their intent is to scare off terrorists, that's not the only people who these tactics will effect.
 
<disclaimer>
The above is a kneejerk reaction with very little informed opinion.
</disclaimer>

just remember, the kneejerk reaction has saved many a lads from a sudden opening of the head, chest, or abdomen. . . :uhoh:
 
This is just plain scary.
What do they think they're doing?
Scaring terrorists to not blow up stuff?
Any person who walks by could plant something or do other heinous things and they wouldn't do anything about it.
This is creepy...
I want to move to Alaska now.
 
Also, whats a snubnosed shotgun?

I was wondering the same thing .

I realize this seems tinfoil hat of me, but this reads like the idea is to desensitize residents to raids of this nature. To a potentially coming police state.

I guess i need to be fitted for my hat soon since that's how I perceive it also .
 
I realize this seems tinfoil hat of me, but this reads like the idea is to desensitize residents to raids of this nature. To a potentially coming police state.

Get the public used to it.

Going in to various places with machine guns and body armor is just business as usual folks.


Don't feel bad - I thought the exact same thing.
 
Lets look at it another way this WILL dissuade the petty criminal and terrorist but this brings up the question if a die hard show up with a bomb will they stop him or start the "lets talk about it" nonsense? Anyone?
 
Yet another reason open carry is good. I wonder what their reaction would be to a few WA, AZ, OH, or VA folks watching while openly carrying a sidearm.
 
If nothing else, at least they are exercising some basic trigger discipline.
 
So, the police are running around the city without uniforms, driving unmarked vehicles, toting carbines.

In an armed state, such as AZ, seems like this kind of thing could lead to problems. Say a guy who wants to be a hero sees an SUV pull up at a bank. 4 guys in body armor jump out, with rifles and shotguns. Our hero gets his SHTF rifle out and starts shooting, believing he is witnessing a robbery in progress or terrorist attack.

I think he would be stupid, but morally in the right. How can you determine who is the good guy and who is the bad guy when they dress and act the same? Is there any difference when the good guys start using the same tactics as the bad guys?

c2k
 
Oh look, stormtroopers.
Terrorists took over airplanes with boxcutters. They motored an inflatable raft up to the USS Cole. Anyone with a Chief's special could have taken them out. Good thing we are arming up for war at home. Do they get fancy arm bands with their own insignia?
 
One of my favorite television quotes:

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

-William Adama, Battlestar Galactica 2004
 
Add one more to the tinfoil crowd.

I have a firm belief that 'feets on the streets' is the best way to combat crime. But these guys just seem to be there for the state sponsored thuggery.
 
...snub-nosed shotguns.
Short barrel scattergun, i.e., "in the absence of any evidence" Supreme Court not saying that a sawed off shotgun had any relationship to the militia... one of those I'd bet. See Derek Zeanah's thread over in "Legal", making certain to watch Naomi Wolf's 46 minute video linked therein. (She did do her homework I will say)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=320148

Then come back to rethink Sam's linked article on SuperCop/Hercules team. Or private contractor's in New Orleans. While I don't come to the same conclusion as Ms Wolf vis a vis impeachment, I do think a message to those elected and a grassroots movement restoring our Constitutional democratic Republic with it's built in checks and balances is about due...

And while it's nice to think of "no need to carry anymore..." I don't feel any safer with men in black sporting snub-nosed shotguns or men in redcoats sporting Brown Bess muskets... do you? Tin foil or no. ;)
 
My tinfoil beanie is firmly attached.

The terrorists aren't invading our Wal-Marts armed with AK-47s. They prefer more cost effective methods, like blowing things up or sending white powder through the mail. I'm much more concerned about the police than I am about terrorists.
 
"What's going on?" she asks, clearly alarmed.

"It's a counterterrorism exercise, ma'am," Walsh says. "Nothing's wrong."

The woman's face slackens with relief. "Nothing's wrong? Great!" "

^one of the scariest parts of the article, that there are citizens who are completely placated by this...

Now where did my tin foil go....
 
We don't need 'em down here in Georgia to control a terrorist attack.

Naawww . . . most decent citizens down here grew up in the country hunting and fishing. We know how to shoot and many are legally "packin" . . . and if a terrorist starts some stuff down here they won't go too far before someone ends the problem with a head shot.

I agree though, that this is a good point for open carry . . . AND for concealed carry by the HONEST CITIZENS of this great land who happen to live in NYC too! Too bad the "solution" to the local politicians is to create a military police state instead.

The citified version of Barney Fife strutting around in black with fully automatic "poodle guns" and lots of extra ammo ain't 'zacktly my idea of a free society. Plus, spraying those FMJ .223 rounds all over the place in 3-shot bursts MAY just hit quite a few honest citizens.

The "State" has way too much power already over it's "subjects" up in Clinton/Gulianni/Obama-land . . . and has effectively disarmed the "good guys" in many large cities of the North.

Power corrupts . . . and disarming honest citizens who will protect our free nation if necessary, and replacing them with a militaristic police-state is NOT a wise idea if we want to continue to be a free country.

T.
 
I'm not a tinfoiler, but I can read a dictionary.
ˈterrorist noun
a person who tries to frighten people or governments into doing what he/she wants by using or threatening violence
And their goal is...
"The response we usually get is, 'Holy s---!'" Nieves says. "That's the reaction we want. We are in the business of scaring people--we just want to scare the right people."
So who are the terrorists now?
 
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