No Safety or Safety

[Robert101]

I want to purchase a carry gun and favor the poly frames for lightweight. I like the 1911 platform due to an exposed hammer and solid secondary safety. Am I the only person in the world that thinks the Glocks and XD type guns do NOT have a safety. I don’t feel good about a safety on a trigger – to me that is not a safety. I’ve always favored a second device separate from the trigger. The only other concern is the lack of hammer fall verses the striker fire mechanism. How did you other guys overcome these two issues?

 

[Lonestar49]

...

1. Trust in the safety of one's trigger finger.. (placement)

And Decocker - only.. in DA/SA format - repeat #1

SAO 1911's, it's as good as it can get.. covers all the_greatest concepts IMHO being carried locked and cocked with one, a/o 2 safety features that must agree..


Ls

 

[Mike J]

Whether or not a pistol has an external safety or not doesn't matter to me. What does matter is me being safe with whatever platform I am using, Keeping my finger off the trigger, Not carrying without a holster that covers the trigger guard, in short using the most important safety-the one between my ears.

 

[GreenMTNLife]

As the other guys have said finger off the trigger and a good holster.

If you really feel more comfortable with a manual safety you could get an M&P with the thumb safety.

 

[Telekinesis]

Am I the only person in the world that thinks the Glocks and XD type guns do NOT have a safety. I don’t feel good about a safety on a trigger – to me that is not a safety. I’ve always favored a second device separate from the trigger.

umm... you mean like the grip safety on the XD?

Personally I'm fine with guns that don't have external safeties. As long as it is a good and well tested gun, it shouldn't go off at all unless the trigger is pulled (yes, this should even apply to 1911s). Then its just a matter of finding a good holster that will cover the trigger and you're good. Safeties are just extras in the event that something really bad happens. As long as you are safe with your gun, it shouldn't matter what safeties the gun has on it.

IIRC most guns have safeties that prevent the gun from firing unless the trigger is deliberately pulled. Glocks and XDs just happen to have them ON the trigger instead of inside the trigger mechanism.

As far as striker vs hammer, it's really personal preference. I think of a fully cocked striker as being similar to a fully cocked hammer (assuming both pistols are SAO or act like it - Think 1911 vs XD) so its not much of a problem for me. I don't believe the glock striker is fully cocked until the trigger is pulled (only partially cocked).

I don't think there's a safety issue about hammer vs striker as long as we're talking about well built guns. I would feel just as comfortable carrying an XD or a Walther P99 as I would carrying my P228.

 

[Robert101]

I think I'll look into the XD with the grip safety. I also noticed that FNP's have many of the features I was looking for. Thanks.

 

[1911Tuner]

I like a manual safety...but not for keeping me from firing when I don't want to. That's what Rule 3 is for. Finger+Trigger=Bang, y'know. I like a manual safety for reholstering the pistol should a piece of errant clothing become entangled in the trigger guard or I'm under high levels of stress and forget to take my finger off the trigger before I jam it back into the holster.

Yeah, I know. If I forget that, I could also forget to engage the safety. Manipulating the safety on and off should be hard-wired into the manual of arms so that it happens without conscious thought just like removing the trigger finger from the trigger guard. No guarantees, of course. There aren't any of those. Just a backup that bumps the odds in my favor and against the possibility of suffering the notorious Glock Leg Syndrome.

And don't think it can't happen to you...

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

A single action pistol that is to be carried with its hammer cocked - thereby instantly ready for action - needs a manual safety. (It could be argued that with strict attention to Rule Three, you should not need it, but that is another topic.) On most DA and all DAO pistols a manual safety is superfluous. There is some merit to them as a weapon retention device.

I don’t feel good about a safety on a trigger – to me that is not a safety.

These are intended to be drop safeties, physically blocking the trigger from moving - and the gun firing - if it is dropped, struck, thrown or whatever. This is not a manual safety in the sense you're thinking of.

 

[Zerodefect]

I want to purchase a carry gun and favor the poly frames for lightweight. I like the 1911 platform due to an exposed hammer and solid secondary safety. Am I the only person in the world that thinks the Glocks and XD type guns do NOT have a safety. I don’t feel good about a safety on a trigger – to me that is not a safety. I’ve always favored a second device separate from the trigger. The only other concern is the lack of hammer fall verses the striker fire mechanism. How did you other guys overcome these two issues?

I also belive Glocks=zero safties. The trigger thing is an inertia drop safety. And that is an excellent thing. The gun shoots when you pull the trigger and deosn't when you don't. Period. None of my 1911's get out of the holster faster than a Glock, but they can get back in quicker.

So when I carry my Glock IWB I'm very careful reholstering it. When I carry it OWB it's less of a concern, but allways on my mind. Reholstering is really the only extra bit of concern with Glock type action.

I use only good Kydex like Ravens OWB or Crossbreed IWB with Glocks. Glocks are perfectly safe in a good holster. I make my own now. My IPDA holster for my G23:









If I'm in rifle training, 3 gun, or other competition where I'm transitioning to pistol, reholstering lighting fast, and going back to rifle.......then I prefer to use a 1911 cocked and locked. And my 1911 trigger feels more like my rifles trigger so that works in my favor as well.

Glock/1911/Kahr. All I ever carry anymore.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I'm not too fond of a gun that requires a holster to be carried safe. Yes I carry with a holster but it seems to be something that was overlooked when the gun was being designed.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I use both a 1911 and an XD 45 Compact for concealed carry. I will admit that I'm far more comfortable carrying my 1911 with one in the chamber because of the manual safety for the reason 1911Tuner pointed out:

I like a manual safety for reholstering the pistol should a piece of errant clothing become entangled in the trigger guard

I've heard a good many stories and seen it happen once (with a Glock 19, luckily with no serious injury though a nasty graze) where some foreign object got tangled in the trigger guard while holstering and fired the gun. The XD grip safety does not help in this cirumstance as it is disengaged while you unholster/holster the gun. That said, I do really like my XD and will carry it with one in the chamber but it admittedly makes me a bit nervous. Since I bought my 1911, it has taken over as the primary EDC (despite larger size and mag capacity) as I'm far more comfortable carrying it in condition 1 all the time, whereas I'm inclinded to only carry the XD in condition 3 unless I expect to be in an area of increased threat (ie late at night, bad part of town, etc).

It's important not to completely depend on a manual safety and throw caution/controlled handling out the window but it does give me a bit more peace of mind that I'm a little less likely to shoot myself in the leg which makes me more likely to actually bring the gun with me and thus have it when I may need it; sometimes the perceived danger of shooting myself in the leg with the XD would outweigh the perceived external dangers of my trip and cause me to either leave it at home or carry in condition 3.

 

[basicblur]

where some foreign object got tangled in the trigger guard while holstering and fired the gun. The XD grip safety does not help in this cirumstance as it is disengaged while you unholster/holster the gun.

The XD safety does give an extra measure of safety when reholstering if you're using the 'proper' technique.

I'm sure someone will chime in with the proper technique, but it's been discussed ad infinitum...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

When I reholster my XD I release my grip from the pistol enough that the grip safety isn't depressed.

 

[Lord Palmerston]

Of course, reholstering a handgun with no manual safety always entails a certain danger. But as it has been said, rule 3 should prevent unwanted discharges. There is always the possibility, yet remote, of the trigger being caught by some loose clothing. Nevertheless, the most important factor in your favour is that you usually do not reholster in a hurry or under stress, because you do reholster when the danger is over, don't you? You may draw under stress, but in this case it does not matter whether your gun has a manual safety or not.

 

[Zerodefect]

Of course, reholstering a handgun with no manual safety always entails a certain danger. But as it has been said, rule 3 should prevent unwanted discharges. There is always the possibility, yet remote, of the trigger being caught by some loose clothing. Nevertheless, the most important factor in your favour is that you usually do not reholster in a hurry or under stress, because you do reholster when the danger is over, don't you? You may draw under stress, but in this case it does not matter whether your gun has a manual safety or not.

Yes exactly.

Except for when your transitioning back to your rifle that went down or ran out of ammo. Still in a huge hurry, but hopefully your pistol bought you some time. Which is why my 1911 is on my belt on rifle days.

 

[Effigy]

Personally I think the DA/SA format without external safety is the best of both world's. It's highly unlikely that clothing or such would get caught and activate the 10+ lb DA trigger by accident, but you're still able to fire the gun without performing any additional steps. (Likewise, you'd be unlikely to accidentally pull that DA trigger if your finger went on autopilot.) Once that step is passed, you have an easy SA pull for subsequent shots. You can put the gun back on "safe" by decocking before reholstering.

 

[TestPilot]

If you are saying pistols like Glock does not have a firing inhibit/enable device that has to be operated manually, then you are right.

And, I don't want a pistol that has a manual firing inhibit device.

I want simplicity.

Holstering safety is a not a primary concern for me.

 

[mgmorden]

Personally, it all comes down to weight. If a trigger is particularly light (ie, the single action pull on most things), then I want a safety. Most striker fired guns, as well as DA/SA guns when the hammer is down, have heavier triggers that are harder to set-off unintentionally. On those, I don't need (nor want) a safety. I DO like a decocker on my DA/SA guns though.

Second part of your question (lack of a hammer) - I wouldn't worry. I technically don't own any striker fired weapons myself, but I've shot lots of them. Striker fired guns don't really have any issues.

All in all, it's what you want to carry. Glocks are modern pistols without the manual safety. Ruger SR9's are similarly styled and do have one. S&W M&P fits into the same style and is available both ways. Or you could go 1911, or any of a myriad of other options. Whether you prefer a manual safety or not you still aren't going to be very limited by purchasing options.

 

[mgmorden]

I'm not too fond of a gun that requires a holster to be carried safe. Yes I carry with a holster but it seems to be something that was overlooked when the gun was being designed.

All a matter of opinion, but in my eyes there never has been one invented that didn't need a holster to be safe. Manual safety or not, things need to stay out of the trigger guard until it's time to fire. Holsters serve the purpose of keeping things out of the trigger guard.

 

[GLOOB]

I'm not too fond of a gun that requires a holster to be carried safe. Yes I carry with a holster but it seems to be something that was overlooked when the gun was being designed.

Yes, you and Plaxico agree on this. The rest of us use a holster and/or condition 3.

Ok. Sometimes you might want the option to carry in a sturdy coat pocket without a holster. Or maybe you need a gun that can be carried in your waistband for street cred, or w/e. So just buy a gun for that purpose. One gun can't do it all. You might as well be angry that you can't fit a Glock into your back pocket or shoot 50 BMG out of it.

Lots of people use a holster. Hence, Glock isn't doing too badly with sales.

The only other concern is the lack of hammer fall verses the striker fire mechanism.

What's the concern? Striker fire beats a lack of hammer fall, every time.

 

[MachIVshooter]

No safeties on my carry guns, thank you. At least not engaged. I carry both my Witness Compact 10mm and my S&W CS 45 hammer down, safety off. I don't want to add any steps that may complicate matters in a very grave situation.

Draw weapon, pull trigger, bang = Good

Draw weapon, pull trigger,.................= Not Good

Yeah, yeah, it's all about the training. Sure..........Watch some guys at an IDPA shoot; Even experienced shooters sometimes forget to disengage the safety. Worse yet, it's been discovered after the fact that police officers involved in shoot-outs have bent and even broken triggers pulling against a safety that was on.

 

[sarduy]

wha does a safety do? it prevent the gun from fireing.... but in a carry weapon i think that a safety is useless because if something happen, you will want to just pull the trigger, but if you have a safety, and we are talking under stress, not in a gun range, you may forget about the safety for a sec or two (i know training cure that) but sme people out there don't have the time to go training. The best safety in the worls is your trigger finger, i carry with the safety.

 

[jgiehl]

K.I.S.S.
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
The first safety I need is that thing between my ears.
The second safety I need is practice, practice, practice.

 

[TexasBill]

I think I'll look into the XD with the grip safety. I also noticed that FNP's have many of the features I was looking for. Thanks.

Yes! The FNP and FNX pistols do have the features you want. Both have external hammers; both have decocking levers so the pistol can be carried ready for immediate use. The FNX adds a safety position on the decocking lever (down=decock, up=safety). They can be carried in a holster or tucked in a waistband; the choice is up to you.

They are also very sweet-shooting pistols. I have had my FNP-9 for going on two years and I enjoy shooting it every time, usually 200+ rounds per visit to the range.

Plus, both the FNP and FNX pistols come from the factory with three magazines, a nice bonus.

 

[msparks]

Back when I carried a 1911 style pistol there were several times I would look down in the holster and see the safety off. I don't know if they was accident or I forgot when I put it back. I know the grip safety still was in play, but the alarm in my mind would go off!

Like others have said, it's the safety between your ears. Practice with your chosen firearm and you will help reduce risk. There is no 100% just like driving a car it only takes a split second lapse. I've driven for 26 years with a great safety record, but that doesn't mean I can't go out and do something stupid just one time. Same goes with carrying a gun.

Personally with a gun, I'm a fan of no safeties or passive ones like the Glock or the XD. But either one would never get carried without being in a "proper" holster. Thought I'm digging the MIC holster for my Glock.