No Safety or Safety

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>Back when I carried a 1911 style pistol there were several times I would look down in the holster and see the safety off. I don't know if they was accident or I forgot when I put it back. I know the grip safety still was in play, but the alarm in my mind would go off! <

It doesn't matter. As you said, the grip safety was still operational and the half-cock notch would have grabbed the sear had the hammer hooks failed...which is highly unlikely. The thumb safety wasn't added for carry purposes anyway. The reason that the US Cavalry requested it was for reholstering in order to free up both hands and regain control of a frightened horse.

Put it to the test. Cock an unloaded pistol and leave the safety in the fire position. Holster the gun and carry it around for a month. As long as you don't grip the gun and pull the trigger, it'll be cocked at the end of the trial.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I moved from carrying a 1911 to a glock. The lack of a safety really bothers you more when you are contemplating buying a glock than when you actually carry it. I follow the same 4 rules that you do. I do however make sure I use a quality holster similar to ravens (made by a member here) or a crossbreed, and I pay extra attention when reholstering. I also check my gear before I put it on to make sure nothing is cracked or broken that may get in the trigger guard.

As for the striker fired thing....what is the big deal about it? The only way to get a trigger as sweet as a 1911 trigger is to get a 1911. The striker mechanism in the glock has proven itself in torture test after torture test, so there is no doubting that it works. The trigger isn't as bad as you think it is, trust me on that. Just start sending lead down range and you'll forget all about what you were whining about previously, or at least that is how it worked for me. Grip angle and trigger feel are the two most common complaints, myself included. After spending some time running the gun...I discovered that I was complaining about something that really didn't affect my shooting.

 

[dayid]

If a gun doesn't fire when you pull the trigger on a chambered round, it's malfunctioning.

I don't understand people that trust their lives to their firearm of their choice, but don't trust themselves enough to handle that firearm.

I've never had trouble reholstering any firearm with or without a manual safety, and currently only carry a DAO revolver and a glock. I don't get what's so hard about making sure your firearm is in working order (e.g., doesn't go bang without pulling the trigger) and not pulling the trigger when you don't mean to.

 

[doc.lonestar]

IMHO an external safety on a DAO is an extra measure but not needed. My experience is that if you can eliminate anything that may go wrong do so. For example - with our Glocks - draw, acquire target, squeeze. My 1911 Commander (which I also carry) I understand that I have to flip my safety off FIRST - is it any slower? Not really, but that external safety is something that I am aware of and adjust my grip to ensure it does not activate while in use.

If you practice safe gun handling and keep you finger off the trigger until needed you will be fine. With that being said - I know some who just cannot get over the fact that there is not a manual safety and thus not comfortable with carrying it.

So you are going to have to go with what you feel comfortable with - that is the end vote that should count.

 

[lono]

I am a must have thumb safety guy. The release of the thumb safety is just part of the draw for me. I don't feel that it slows me down in anyway but it keeps my right leg a little safer. JMHO

 

[JustinJ]

A chambered Glock is actually not fully cocked. Pulling the trigger actually finishes cocking the gun and releasing the firing pin. The XD on the other hand is fully cocked which is why they went with a grip safety. I'm not sure about the M&P.

The Glock trigger safety is actually designed to prevent it from being inadverently pulled by a foreign object but it ain't 100%. It does also act as a drop safety.

To me a drop safety is most important as dropping a fire arm is a very real possibility.

My primary carry gun is an HK P2000sk. Its a SADA with no external safety so on a quick draw i have the long pull or if can cock if time allows. And to me cocking is not significantly slowr than disengaging a safety.

But there are guns out there of every configuration imaginablel. I think the Ruger SR9 has an external safety. I know my LC9 does but i have no use for it as i am used to practicing without having to disengage a safety and dont plan on changing now.

 

[Alberforth]

I've come to like the idea of the holster being the safety. I have been a 1911 fan all my life but I just got a Kahr for pocket carry. I have no problem activating and de-activating a safety on a 1911 in stressful (range) situations, but not having one means one less thing to go wrong.

That said, I don't think I'd go this way for a form of carry in which reholstering had to be blind.

 

[Hangingrock]

I believe that there are a multitude of design choices concerning functionality that should meet the end users comfort level now in the market place.

That said I believe that S&W made a strong statement with its 3rd generation striker fired pistol. They being S&W didn’t see a need at original issuance for an external grip or thumb lever safeties but did follow thru later with an optional external thumb lever safety which is basically the lock by a different name. S&W finally had a platform that could compete with the Glock.

Apparently Glock and S&W are satisfied with their basic designs in regards to end user application.

Yes Glock is on Gen-4 but that is ergonomic enhancements and certain mechanical parts revisions but the basic design operating design remains the same.

For concealed carry I like the Glock followed by the S&W-MP series pistols. The most important aspect in my view is understanding the design principle thus the manual of arms for implementation of usage.

 

[SSN Vet]

I agree with Tuner's wisdom...

I like a manual safety...but not for keeping me from firing when I don't want to. That's what Rule 3 is for. Finger+Trigger=Bang, y'know. I like a manual safety for reholstering the pistol should a piece of errant clothing become entangled in the trigger guard or I'm under high levels of stress and forget to take my finger off the trigger before I jam it back into the holster.

Seems like most of the Glock NDs you hear about are related to re-holstering.

I rely firmly on the safety between my ears, but $#it happens and Murphy's army is always out to get me, so I'm not one to scorn a little back up. Carefully read the many ND threads on this forum and others and I suspect that you will come to a similar conclusion.

What scares me is how many read the same stories and come to the conclusion that having an ND is inevitable

Are these the same guys that bash any form of safety device because "the only safety anybody ever needs is the one between their ears?" And the same guys that insist that they don't need to inquire with the head of the household to carry when visiting other peoples private residences?

Sorry guys. If you think having an ND is inevitable, all safety devices are stupid, and you have no obligation to respect my wishes in my home, your not welcome there and not welcome around my kids.

 

[gatorjames85]

My preferred "safety" in a CC weapon is a long, heavy trigger pull.

 

[MachIVshooter]

but did follow thru later with an external thumb lever safety which is basically the lock by a different name.

It's optional. It's also easily removed if you want it at first and later change your mind.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

There is an XD model in 45 ACP that has an external safety you need to deactivate. I believe XD designed this model with potential military sales in mind. Check out their website.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

FWIW, my favorite pistols are Sigs and they have no safey on them at all and I don't worry about it. I am careful when I reholster. Like the OP said, being able to see an external hammer seems to put me more at ease. I think this is somewhat irrational on my part but such is life.

 

[Ben86]

Am I the only person in the world that thinks the Glocks and XD type guns do NOT have a safety.

They do have safeties, just not manual ones.

If a manual safety gives you the warm fuzzies go for it. Just be sure to train yourself to deactivate the safety without thinking. Also, keep a grip that causes an activated safety to feel out of place, that way you instinctively switch it off. There is nothing wrong with having a safety as long as your train for it.

I personally will be sticking with my glocks and m&ps, along with proper holsters of course.

The thumb safety wasn't added for carry purposes anyway. The reason that the US Cavalry requested it was for reholstering in order to free up both hands and regain control of a frightened horse.

That is interesting, thanks for the tidbit of information.

 

[cwp3420]

For many years, I carried various weapons while employed by the U.S. Government. I started with revolvers (yes, I'm an old guy), went to Beretta 92D models (external safety), then to HK USP Compacts (no safety, LEM heavy trigger), then ended with a Glock 19 (to me personally, no safety). I never had trouble with any of them, they just had different manuals of arms.

Now retired, my EDC weapon is the HK45CT (no safety) with the light LEM DA only trigger. I like having no safety and I like the lightest trigger pull there is. The light LEM comes in at about 4 lbs. pressure. I don't recommend that for newcomers to CCW for obvious reasons.

I also prefer a hammer to a striker fired pistol. One, it's easier for me to see the condition the pistol is in. Two, I like the option of reholstering and keeping the hammer physically down while doing so. Just a personal preference I guess.

If you have a range around where you can try out some of the various pistols you like, try and do so. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Lateck]

I personally LIKE a manual safety (I'll take the heat )
I have found that most people do not want a manual safety :banghead:
My reason is that if for any reason you lose control of your sidearm the safety may save your life for a few seconds. Time for you to regain you gun!

Good luck and be safe.


Lateck,