No Tool 1911 Detail Strip

[Old Fuff]

Jim:

I have a problem in that I don't have my .45's where I'm at for the moment, but when we get back together I'll check out my statement on using the mabazine base tab to remove or tighten certain grip screws. The screws in question have slots that are much wider then .034" give or take.

 

[sm]

Grip screw and casings

Okay people, I'm confused. I know it is not a big deal, but it is in a way - to me - because of the unique thought out design of the 1911.

I was told the 45 ACP case was taken into consideration as a tool to tighten the grip screw by JMB. The grip screw was wider and radiused to accept the case, and the screw was pretty much flush with grip ( read: not countersunk so deep to hinder this action).

I could have sworn the "gunny" as a brat did this to show me, as did my uncle, and other elders of my time, including some vets. Was this in fact a design feature of JMB, something found out by accident ( in a time of need, adapt, improvise,overcome situation) amourers do this on their own...?

Hey I admit I don't know a lot about a lot of stuff. You guys have more knowledge and experience in your left pinkie than I do - period.

sniff sniff, I may be 48, but the kid in me is gonna be dissapointed if it ain't so...sniff sniff

Maybe just lie to me, and not hurt my feelings and let me have my memories and stories...sniff sniff. Just some stuff maybe a kid doesn't need to know the truth about...regardless of the age of the kid.

Sigh...I know , it's not a big deal...but it is...

 

[1911Tuner]

Company...Eyes RIGHT!

BigG wanted to know:

All we need to know now is... what the company you three brains are forming will be called? T-K-F, or K-F-T, or K-T-F, or F-K-T, or F-T-K, or ...

Hmmm... FuKenTu Custom Pistols...it's got a certain "ring" to it, eh wot?
JiFuTu...nah. TuFuKe...nah...Fu-K-T...LMAO...nahhhhh Better stop while
I'm still a memberin good standin'.

sm...I've heard that the screws were designed for the case rims...AND
that it was coincidental that the rim worked. After nearly a century, the
only ones who know for sure are all dead. Maybe some enterprising
armorer opened up the slots a little on a pistol that was to accompany a
pal overseas, and it caught on. Maybe John Moses specified it. All I know
for sure is that the GI-spec screw slots will accept the case rim, and if
the ones on my pistol won't, I'll either find some that will or open'em
up with a file. I like the No-Tool thing a lot.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[sm]

< blows nose in kleenex, lifts head and feigns a grin>

Thanks Tuner, I'm gonna keep believing what I always have! It is important for kids to believe in stuff...regardless of how old we get!

<---see I'm much better now?

btw I never did believe that crap about a loose tooth tied to door knob with string "would not hurt", didn't believe in the tooth fairy either...your supposed to shoot a shotgun or rifle and the recoil takes care of it and Uncle gives you a quarter when you hit the target...it's true it really really is!

See, I told ya I was raised right...

 

[Old Fuff]

SM:

The original 1911 pistol had conventional slots in the grip screws and Uncle Sam issued a special take-down tool that had a correct screwdriver blade with a pin-punch on the other end. You occasionally see them for sale through this-or-that surplus store. These were used up to and during World War Two. Then the slots were changed - I believe to fit the front of the magazine base, but I could be wrong about this. When I can I will research this a bit more. Anyway I'm pretty sure a case or cartridge rim would fit into the same slot. I think the "right or wrong" answer to this question depends on the time frame during which a particular gun or grip screw was made.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, 1911Tuner,

You seem to be doing OK. I think starting these threads was a great idea, but we are really getting in deep. I'll check the other threads and see if I can contribute.

Jim

 

[Jim K]

Well, I checked the grip screw slots of No. 79x, the same gun I used to verify the info on the dimpled mag catch lock. I then checked several WWI and WWII pistols, plus a 1948 GM and a 1967 Commander. I also checked a Norinco. All had the same size screw slot +/- some small fraction of an inch. The base plate cannot vary much in thickness because it is critical to positioning the magazine. If it is too thin, the magazine can wedge in; if it is too thick, the magazine won't latch. Kuhnhausen gives a base plate thickness of .079"-005", far too thick for the grip screw slot.

I have used a .45 case mouth to tighten those screws, but the case rim is too thick (.050). That case rim thickness and diameter is (for natural reasons) the same as those dimensions for the .30-'06, but the extractor groove in the .45 case is wider. There is no indication in any document I have seen, or in practice, that the rim was ever intended to be used as a screwdriver for the grip screws. Like the magazine base plate, the rim is too thick.

(I wonder if some folks are thinking of the band screw on the .30 carbine; that screw is made so that the cartridge case rim can be used as a screwdriver.)

As to the idea that Browning planned the .45 case so it could be used as a recoil spring plug or designed the plug to be the same diameter as the case, I doubt that very much. There is room for coincidence, after all. And if the plug has the proper half moon cut into which the spring can be screwed, the plug won't become lost in the first place.

On whether Browning, in his wisdom, foresaw canned beer, and provided a can opener as part of the 1911, I can only say "no comment".

Jim

 

[sm]

Ok, I hear what you guys are saying. You guys know more about this than I, I just appreciate the sharing and learning from all this. Like I said, when I don't know, I'll ask. If I'm mistaken, I'll admit so.

Maybe it is coincidence, or an armourer altered...I like the idea, gonna hold onto it , because , I think adds something to the uniqueness of the 1911.

I searched, and I can't find any info as good as you guys. I don't have the resources ( books) ...experiences,talent as you guys.

Is there a link that I don't know about? I honestly don't recall ever seeing the tool. I went to 1911forum./ 1911org archives...didn't find what I wanted in a search.

Older I get the more I realize what I don't know. As much as I have shot one of these things...sheeesh I feel really dumb. Maybe I should haved fired a few less shotgun shells...and researched more gun stuff...especially the 1911.

 

[1911Tuner]

Take a look at

The M-16 firing pin, and how it works on the 1911. It punches out every pin that needs punching out, and realigns every part/pinhole that needs realigning. It will even push out the mainspring cap retaining pin far
enough to grab it and bring it the rest of the way out. Coincidence?
Or did Eugene Stoner look at the U.S. military sidearm at the time and
go...hmmmmmmm ?

Food fer thinkin'...methinks.

 

[N3rday]

Yes, JMB predicted the uprise of the M-16
and he secretely invented many other things, like water and sliced bread!

WWJMBD?

 

[jaybar]

Grip screw tool = three finger spring

It is my understanding that the locating tab on the bottom of the three finger spring was designed to be used as a field screwdriver for the grip screws.

It works for me.