No Wolf ammo allowed at a range?

[GigaBuist]

A new, indoor, range opened up near me and it's the only one of it's kind in the area. My first day there I read the rules, found them to be rather sound, and bought a membership. Been there thrice now in the past two week since it's opened.

They do not allow: Steel jacket, steel cored, or steel tipped rounds. Nothing that's armor piercing.

I walk in today with a buddy who's familiar with firearms, and brought a Mosin Nagant and Egyptian AK-47 with me. We check in, agree on an hour of shooting time, and waltz into the shooting lanes. Upon placing the rifle cases on the table the safety feller asks what we're shooting. I tell him. He asks what kind of rounds we're shoooting. I give the calibers and he looks at me and says, " I knew that. What kind of ammo?" I ponder... does he want to know the bullet weight? FMJ or JHP? I sputter, uh.... copper jacketed Wolf ammo.

He asks, "is that steel?"

"The casing is, but the jackets are copper, why?"

"That might be a problem... let me go ask my boss."

He wanders out, I again look at the lists of things I cannot shoot there and STEEL CASED is not on the list. Why would it be? The steel never leaves the firing line, it can't hurt their barriers.

Owner comes back, with a magnent, picks up the rounds with the magnet and informs me I cannot shoot them. I don't even ask for an explanation but he offers me two:

One, the people they sell spent brass to don't like having to fish out the steel rounds. I'm thinking, "As a paying customer your housekeeping efforts are my concern because....?" I imagine they'd get pissed if I came in there with a contraption on an AR-15 to catch my own brass because they'd see that as a loss of profit.

He then informs me of three Ka-booms in other ranges he knows of that they attribute to Wolf ammo. I'm thinking, "They're commie-bloc weapons desinged to shoot this stuff... and it's MY HEAD next to the potential Kaboom. It can happen with anything. What's next, no .40cal Glocks at the range?"

Fair enough. It's their range, their (unposted) rules... so we just leave as I'm not up for purchasing overpriced ammo for a weapon that I've got 500+ rounds for just so I can shoot it there that night.

I'm a bit jilted, seeing as how my first trip there I was told that they were usually 2 bucks cheaper per box of ammo cheaper than places around there. I take a gander at their 9mm Winclean boxes and they're $12. Uhm, that's $2 MORE than most places. I digress.

I get the feeling it's a matter of, "I wouldn't trust the stuff, so I don't think you should shoot it here. Buy real ammo." mentality.

If it's a housekeeping problem, fine, charge me $3 more for my hour to pay for the cost of somebody seperating my spent steel after me. Or just ask me to clean it up myself. If it's a safety issue then I expect you to hand inspect every gun for possible headspace issues or carbon buildup problems. You can't honestly tell me that putting steel jacketed ammo into a Russian gun is that unsafe, can you?

So... is this a common policy with ranges that anybody else here frequents? Don't get me wrong -- I like the place, and I shall return... I'm just a little miffed at the whole incident. If I had just KNOWN I would have brought the AR-15 with my Federal brass ammo and probably the CETME and bought some .308 from them. Maybe another day.

 

[Destructo6]

Uh, how hard would it be to pick up steel cases with a magnet, if they need to separate them?

Yes, indoor range operators often don't use their brains. One place wouldn't let me shoot my CZ-52 pistol because it was "too powerful." Of course, they had no problems with people shooting 44mag and similar.

Another wouldn't let me shoot any steel-cased ammo, because it might ignite the carpet on the firing line. They carpeted the firing line...

 

[Gewehr98]

Lots of ranges sell their pickup brass to reloading businesses...

As a former range officer at one, I knew it was a royal pain to separate the steel-cased and aluminum Blazer casings from the reloadable stuff, without either manpower or an electromagnetic/eddy current separator. Then they still have to sort through the Berdan primed brass afterwards.

And no, we gave our customers every chance to recover their own brass from the facility, it wasn't a greed thing when somebody kept what they brought from outside. We actually appreciated customers who picked up after themselves. There really isn't that much money recouped from brass sales, but if you want to keep range fees reasonable and still pay the liability insurance premiums...

 

[CZ 75 BD]

I would ask...

for my membership to be refunded.

 

[joe4702]

The indoor range I go to in San Diego does not allow Wolf.
Big signs all over the place "WOLF AMMO NOT ALLOWED"
When you check in at the counter, they ask to see your ammo.
When I asked about it, they told me the laquer coating will
melt and build up in your chamber, creating a safety hazard.
Jammed gun, I guess? I've never had any problems with Wolf.

 

[Jedi_7.62]

Good for you for leaving. Money talks. Sounds to me like they were trying to scam you into buying over priced ammo. Maybe I'm missing something but as a Business man myself, I take overhead (housekeeping to be a cost of doing business (overhead)....I've never shot at a range doublt if I'd feel comfortable shooting guns indoors lol.. I would think brass left behind to be a perk not an expectation. Unless you sign something agreeing to forfit spent brass.

As far as boom goes I have over 3,000 rounds of wolf through my AK and only problem I ever had was 1 (one) failure to fire.

If the guy has to consult the boss over this I wouldn't find him fit to manage safety. Sounds more like a corporate yes man.

Besides an AK blowing up on someone.....I'd Tell the safety guy to Just tell me he saw a flying pig while we're at it. Come on Don't insult my inteligence. lol


I wouldn't be back,

 

[cordex]

GigaBuist,
Wolf ammo is steel jacket with copper wash. If they prohibit steel jacket, Wolf would be included in that ban.

 

[dav]

Joe4702,

Sounds like ASC to me! Interesting that the stories change. When I asked "why no Wolf" they told me it was steel core and damaged their backstops.

I knew they had a Wolf ban before I joined, so it doesn't bother me. Being told AFTER you paid would be a major no-no, in my book.

 

[Jedi_7.62]

Joe,

If you fire enough of anytthing you will get build up not just wolf.

Does expensive ammo tell you, If you shoot their ammo you won't have to clean your guns.

Does brand x of motor oil tell you if you use their oil you'll never have to change the oil in your car.

No Wolf isn't the best ammo in the world but it is the cheapest I've found.
LOL....

Tons of it through my Makarov ...No trouble
Tons through my AK ...... 1 failure to fire in over 3,000 rounds

What's the difference between firing 3,000 rounds of Wolf at home not cleaning your weapon and showing up to the range w/ expensive ammo


I'd understand more if they inspected your weapons before allowing them to be fired on their property. Then they might have a case....

 

[Majic]

Consider yourself lucky. I know of several indoor ranges that mandates the use of their ammo exclusively. You bring ammo and shoot it and they ask you to leave.

 

[Trempel]

Yeah, a local range has a policy about CCI pistol ammo and it's aluminum casings for that same reason. Lazy bums

 

[Andrew Rothman]

My indoor range also bans steel cased ammo, claiming the separation problem. (Are magnets that expensive?) Their ammo prices are fair by the case; only WalMart beats them by much.

I was pretty peeved after buying a case of Wolf, which shot just fine in my P95 (but then, everything shoots fine in it). I decided to shoot outdoors when I can, at a range that doesn't care what kind of ammo I shoot.

And so they lose a customer. Oh, well. Free market and all that.

Matt

 

[GigaBuist]

GigaBuist,
Wolf ammo is steel jacket with copper wash. If they prohibit steel jacket, Wolf would be included in that ban.

I'd never heard that before (never thought about it much)... and that wasn't offered as a reason as to why I cannot shoot Wolf.

So, I took a magnet to a bullet tip -- and yep, it kinda sticks to it!

Took a file to it, and YEP! There's steel under that copper. It sure doesn't look like lead and it's not filing away near as easy as the copper did.

So, there is a good reason not to allow it, or at least there was a posted reason.

Does this stuff actually penetrate better because of the steel jacket? Or is it just another cost saving measure?

 

[cordex]

Does this stuff actually penetrate better because of the steel jacket? Or is it just another cost saving measure?

Cost saving measure.

 

[repsychler]

All the Wolf 7.62x39 I've bought has a steel jacket. The range I go to doesn't care about the case, but no steel in the bullet whatsoever. They test the ammo with a magnet. The Wolf .223 I've been buying lately thankfully passes the magnet test.

 

[HankB]

. . . the people they sell spent brass to don't like having to fish out the steel rounds.

I knew of a range where they didn't want you to pick up your own empties, as they used to load their own "range ammo" in back which they sold at the counter.

I left them a lot of brass cases that were Berdan primed.

 

[starfuryzeta]

Local range I go to gave me crap about Wolf and S&B. Doesn't violate any of their written rules (no handloads, no APs).
Range guy was telling me how he wouldn't shoot that "crap" in his gun, he wouldn't support commies, etc. He'd then turn around in the same breath and shill the local reloaded crap..er, ammo.
My response was that it doesn't violate the rules, its cheaper, and my guns eat them up like there is no tomorrow.
This guy has also lambasted a friend about the Winchester whitebox value packs from Wal-Mart as well.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I love the theory that the lacquer will build up in the chamber...

Wolf uses the same lacquering process that's been used behind the iron curtain in making steel-cased ammo for decades.

 

[Sunray]

Any range that steals your brass isn't the place to be. The scrap value of brass isn't that high. If they steal it, it's to sell as once fired brass. Steel cases are not reloadable. Nor is a range that says no handloads.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Steel cases are reloadable, it's just a TREMENDOUS pain in the butt.

Reloading steel was the only way to keep a friend's 8x56R Steyr in ammo before all that surplus hit the market about 10 years ago.

 

[P95Carry]

I know of several indoor ranges that mandates the use of their ammo exclusively. You bring ammo and shoot it and they ask you to leave.

All I can say is .. I am more than glad I rarely - VERY rarely need to use a range of this sort. Hell, some of the ''rules'' I could accept, just, but this one .... I mean, a lotta guys cannot afford to keep buying expensive stuff and what's more ... providing there are no sneaky attempts at loading with steel cores (not much point surely) .. where is the prob?

In fact, in my case the bullets would be cast anyways .... about as ''benign'' as bullets get re backstops ..... tho I guess maybe someone will spout the ''liability'' deal .. in case a homeload turns out to be a KB!

Oh well ....

 

[Daniel T]

Range guy was telling me how he wouldn't shoot that "crap" in his gun, he wouldn't support commies, etc.

Anyone who blindy spouts off that S&B ammo is crap and is made by communists is an...well, let's just say they're special. Those that know the least seem to make up for it by yelling the loudest.

 

[ocabj]

I stopped going to the indoor range in my area a long time ago. After the place changed hands the new owners became Nazis. No Wolf ammo and you can't bring in your own targets. I don't use Wolf ammo but the restriction on bringing in your own targets irked me.

I strictly go to the outdoor range now. It's a little farther, but it's a lot cheaper (membership), has more friendlier shooters and proprieters, and I like shooting outdoors more.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

My .02

At the indoor range I used to manage, we asked that if shooters were going to be collecting their brass, to please mark it before hand with a big felt tip marker we had at the check in desk. It may not be obvious, but collecting and reselling range brass is a pretty nice source of revenue for a range. Either selling it back to a commercial reloader or as brass scrap to a recycler. We had no restrictions on Wolf ammo, because as others have pointed out, magnets are cheap. CCI Blazer was more of a pain in the behind, but not a gigantic hassle. Heck, we even had a case/caliber-separating machine that we used to break down the range brass into separate piles. The commercial reloader we sold the cases to would pay more for pre-sorted brass.

We would only allow factory ammo or the commercial reloads we sold, in our rental guns, for the simple reason that we did not want someone testing his ‘home-brew’ ammo in our firearms. The only exception to this was .22 rimfire; if you rented one of our .22s you could shoot the .22 ammo you brought with you.
If you had your own gun, great, you can shoot anything you want in it. But our guns, our ammo. Which I think is pretty reasonable.

 

[Pendragon]

Yeah - it is not reasonable to let people shoot their own handloads in a rented - gun.

Lots od bubbas think the pressure guidelines are just suggestions...