NoVaGator
Member
you can buy an awful lot of extractors with the $$$ you can save using wolf ammo.
Wolf Ammo
- Thread starter Hazwaste
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Beren
Moderator Emeritus
My Glock 17 loves Wolf ammo. Yummy, yummy, yummy. Feed me now, Beren! Feed me that lovely stink!
The nice thing about Wolf is that after one range session, forever after will you be able to /instantly/ discern whether a particular firearm has fired Wolf ammo since its last cleaning. With a little more experience, you'll be able to tell how long ago it was based on how much the stink has faded. If the gun grabbers knew, they'd try to make us all use Wolf ammo to "help the police solve crimes."
My Griffon 1911 Commander also seems to love Wolf. I don't understand it myself, but of all the FMJ range ammo I've run through it, Wolf has been the most accurate. Strange but true.
Buy a box if you want, see what happens. Experience the Wolf stink! (Maybe they could use that as a slogan?)
As another poster put it, your mileage may vary.
The nice thing about Wolf is that after one range session, forever after will you be able to /instantly/ discern whether a particular firearm has fired Wolf ammo since its last cleaning. With a little more experience, you'll be able to tell how long ago it was based on how much the stink has faded. If the gun grabbers knew, they'd try to make us all use Wolf ammo to "help the police solve crimes."
My Griffon 1911 Commander also seems to love Wolf. I don't understand it myself, but of all the FMJ range ammo I've run through it, Wolf has been the most accurate. Strange but true.
Buy a box if you want, see what happens. Experience the Wolf stink! (Maybe they could use that as a slogan?)
As another poster put it, your mileage may vary.
"...the Olympic Arms website which posted a warning specifically about Wolf ammo is available to all."
One thing I never see brought up in these discussions is the possibility that maybe the warning is a commentary on the guns they produce. As was noted, no other manufacturer of AR15 style rifles posts a similar warning. Does this mean that Oly Arms produces bad rifles ? No. But I do believe they produce rifles chambered for .223 Rem with unlined bores and chambers rather than the milspec 5.56mm chrome lined barrel and chamber of companies like Bushmaster.
I have read countless times on this board that chrome lined chambers and barrels are a waste of money. Ok. It's your money. Spend it as you see fit.
One thing I never see brought up in these discussions is the possibility that maybe the warning is a commentary on the guns they produce. As was noted, no other manufacturer of AR15 style rifles posts a similar warning. Does this mean that Oly Arms produces bad rifles ? No. But I do believe they produce rifles chambered for .223 Rem with unlined bores and chambers rather than the milspec 5.56mm chrome lined barrel and chamber of companies like Bushmaster.
I have read countless times on this board that chrome lined chambers and barrels are a waste of money. Ok. It's your money. Spend it as you see fit.
bountyhunter
member
Olympic Arms Comments on Wolf Ammo
Here is exactly what Olympic Arms (maker of AR-15's) says about Wolf ammo on their website. Draw your own conclusions about it:
Ammunition Warning
This warning comes based on an increased volume of customer calls regarding feeding and ejection malfunctions of AR-15 style rifles. Further investigation of these situations came to prove that the vast majority of these malfunctions were based on ammunition, and not the firearm itself. Following is some of the information that have compiled based on this investigation.
Lacquer Coated Ammo
If you plan on using lacquer-coated ammo in your Olympic Arms AR-15, please be aware of the following. We have received many recent phone calls, as well as some rifles sent in for repair, complaining about reliability problems in their Oly Arms AR's. The first question usually asked is, "What ammunition are you using?" The answers to the question, as well as seeing the chambers of the rifles that were sent in are showing us that lacquer coated ammo is clogging the chambers badly.
What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber. Under continuous fire, this is usually not noticed, but once you stop, the barrel cools, the lacquer sets and you now cannot chamber and/or properly extract your ammunition. You will experience this in AR-15's much more frequently than other rifles such as the SKS and AK/MAC variants. In most cases the 7.62x39 rifles have chambers cut to the large end of the safety spectrum so that feeding and reliability is uncompromised by the type of ammunition or the consistency of the case dimensions. AR style rifles, and especially those from Oly Arms will have tighter chambers so that you can experience a greater level of accuracy that these rifles are capable of performing. Olympic chambers specifically are cut to 5.56 NATO specs via Clymer reamers in all button rifled barrels, and minimum SAAMI spec .223 Remington on all SUM Ultramatch barrels. Our rifles will provide superior accuracy, partly based on that fact.
Major brands of lacquer coated ammo we have seen are Wolf, most Russian ammo (even if it has the Remington head stamp), Norinco (or most Chinese) and most all former eastern block countries.
Our recommendations: DO NOT USE LACQUER COATED AMMO. Otherwise, be prepared for the consequences. Additionally, most lacquer-coated ammo utilizes steel cases instead of brass. BAD FOR YOUR CHAMBER.
The Consequences: Poor feeding, poor extraction, poor accuracy, and an impossible to clean chamber possibly resulting in a rifle that simply does not work.
Although Olympic Arms only warrants their firearms when used with new production brass cased US manufactured ammo, we would be remiss to think that the bulk of our customers do not use remanufactured, imported or reloaded ammo. We know that they will, and do. The reason that our warranty does not cover the use of this ammo is as much to protect you, as it is our product and our product. If you are using factory US new manufactured brass cased ammo, and something goes wrong and the rifle is damaged, the ammo manufacturer will usually take care of any repair costs. If not, and the damage can be proven to be the fault of the ammo, you have some sort of course of action you can take against that manufacturer to recover some or all of the expenses of the repairs. If you use foreign lacquer coated ammo as an example, you have NO options.
Is your rifle worth it?
Here is exactly what Olympic Arms (maker of AR-15's) says about Wolf ammo on their website. Draw your own conclusions about it:
Ammunition Warning
This warning comes based on an increased volume of customer calls regarding feeding and ejection malfunctions of AR-15 style rifles. Further investigation of these situations came to prove that the vast majority of these malfunctions were based on ammunition, and not the firearm itself. Following is some of the information that have compiled based on this investigation.
Lacquer Coated Ammo
If you plan on using lacquer-coated ammo in your Olympic Arms AR-15, please be aware of the following. We have received many recent phone calls, as well as some rifles sent in for repair, complaining about reliability problems in their Oly Arms AR's. The first question usually asked is, "What ammunition are you using?" The answers to the question, as well as seeing the chambers of the rifles that were sent in are showing us that lacquer coated ammo is clogging the chambers badly.
What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber. Under continuous fire, this is usually not noticed, but once you stop, the barrel cools, the lacquer sets and you now cannot chamber and/or properly extract your ammunition. You will experience this in AR-15's much more frequently than other rifles such as the SKS and AK/MAC variants. In most cases the 7.62x39 rifles have chambers cut to the large end of the safety spectrum so that feeding and reliability is uncompromised by the type of ammunition or the consistency of the case dimensions. AR style rifles, and especially those from Oly Arms will have tighter chambers so that you can experience a greater level of accuracy that these rifles are capable of performing. Olympic chambers specifically are cut to 5.56 NATO specs via Clymer reamers in all button rifled barrels, and minimum SAAMI spec .223 Remington on all SUM Ultramatch barrels. Our rifles will provide superior accuracy, partly based on that fact.
Major brands of lacquer coated ammo we have seen are Wolf, most Russian ammo (even if it has the Remington head stamp), Norinco (or most Chinese) and most all former eastern block countries.
Our recommendations: DO NOT USE LACQUER COATED AMMO. Otherwise, be prepared for the consequences. Additionally, most lacquer-coated ammo utilizes steel cases instead of brass. BAD FOR YOUR CHAMBER.
The Consequences: Poor feeding, poor extraction, poor accuracy, and an impossible to clean chamber possibly resulting in a rifle that simply does not work.
Although Olympic Arms only warrants their firearms when used with new production brass cased US manufactured ammo, we would be remiss to think that the bulk of our customers do not use remanufactured, imported or reloaded ammo. We know that they will, and do. The reason that our warranty does not cover the use of this ammo is as much to protect you, as it is our product and our product. If you are using factory US new manufactured brass cased ammo, and something goes wrong and the rifle is damaged, the ammo manufacturer will usually take care of any repair costs. If not, and the damage can be proven to be the fault of the ammo, you have some sort of course of action you can take against that manufacturer to recover some or all of the expenses of the repairs. If you use foreign lacquer coated ammo as an example, you have NO options.
Is your rifle worth it?
"What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber."
Bravo Sierra
Don't take my word for it. Don't take Olympic Arm's word for it. Don't take anyone on the internet's word for it. Take a fired case that has been treated with lacquer such as Wolf ammo. Using a torch, heat the case up as hot as you want but don't melt it (don't melt the steel of the case that is). Cherry red should be good since this is far hotter than any round would ever get in the chamber of a weapon. See any gelatinous goo ? No ? Take a screwdriver or other sharp object and see if you can scrape the lacquer off.
I have done the above test and know the results. One of my best friends did the same thing. He knows the result.
Don't buy in to anything you haven't tried for yourself. All it takes is about 10 minutes of your time.
Let me pose a question. It has been suggested on here that Russian or communist weapons have been "designed" to use steel cased ammo. Ok, that maybe true (although I doubt it). But when a Russian belt fed machine gun is cranking out those rounds, how do they get around this gelatinous goo ? How do they keep this lacquer from "clogging the chambers badly" Maybe the Russians are using teflon chambers so it doesn't stick ? No matter how much bigger the chamber is cut, if this goo exists, it is going to build up over time, No ? Possibly in the third world countries that use the older Russian designed weapons they are especially mindful of using that chamber brush so this doesn't happen.
Bravo Sierra
Don't take my word for it. Don't take Olympic Arm's word for it. Don't take anyone on the internet's word for it. Take a fired case that has been treated with lacquer such as Wolf ammo. Using a torch, heat the case up as hot as you want but don't melt it (don't melt the steel of the case that is). Cherry red should be good since this is far hotter than any round would ever get in the chamber of a weapon. See any gelatinous goo ? No ? Take a screwdriver or other sharp object and see if you can scrape the lacquer off.
I have done the above test and know the results. One of my best friends did the same thing. He knows the result.
Don't buy in to anything you haven't tried for yourself. All it takes is about 10 minutes of your time.
Let me pose a question. It has been suggested on here that Russian or communist weapons have been "designed" to use steel cased ammo. Ok, that maybe true (although I doubt it). But when a Russian belt fed machine gun is cranking out those rounds, how do they get around this gelatinous goo ? How do they keep this lacquer from "clogging the chambers badly" Maybe the Russians are using teflon chambers so it doesn't stick ? No matter how much bigger the chamber is cut, if this goo exists, it is going to build up over time, No ? Possibly in the third world countries that use the older Russian designed weapons they are especially mindful of using that chamber brush so this doesn't happen.
280PLUS
Member
i use it in my bolt action,,,
CZ 527
so far it's the only inexpensive 7.62 x 39 that i can find that goes bang every time...
i haven't shot it enough yet to encounter any of the problems metioned here
just for fun,,,
instead of using a torch to heat your shell (which may be burning the laquer off) put some in the toaster oven or big oven (whatever) and see if you can create any of this gelatinous goo that way?
CZ 527
so far it's the only inexpensive 7.62 x 39 that i can find that goes bang every time...
i haven't shot it enough yet to encounter any of the problems metioned here
just for fun,,,
instead of using a torch to heat your shell (which may be burning the laquer off) put some in the toaster oven or big oven (whatever) and see if you can create any of this gelatinous goo that way?
Gelatinous Goo
I forgot to mention, a buddy of mine who owns one of those S&W SMGs model 76, I think. Anyways, it is the open-bolt SMG built a while back by S&W. It is a legally-owned Class III weapon, BTW.
We fired up all his brass-cased ammo, then the only stuff we had left was my Wolf 9mm. "Ugh, Wolf." he says, "It'll get laquer all over my chamber & action," he says. "It's all we have left," I say.
So we put 200 rounds of Wolf 9mm through, firing bursts. (The weapon was already hot from our previous few hundred rounds of Winnie White Box or whatever target ammo we were using) Took a REAL short time. No malfunctions and we didn't grow hair on our palms. Afterward, lotsa powder residue, but no "gelatinous goo." He now likes the Wolf.
Class III + Wolf = more shootin'.
I forgot to mention, a buddy of mine who owns one of those S&W SMGs model 76, I think. Anyways, it is the open-bolt SMG built a while back by S&W. It is a legally-owned Class III weapon, BTW.
We fired up all his brass-cased ammo, then the only stuff we had left was my Wolf 9mm. "Ugh, Wolf." he says, "It'll get laquer all over my chamber & action," he says. "It's all we have left," I say.
So we put 200 rounds of Wolf 9mm through, firing bursts. (The weapon was already hot from our previous few hundred rounds of Winnie White Box or whatever target ammo we were using) Took a REAL short time. No malfunctions and we didn't grow hair on our palms. Afterward, lotsa powder residue, but no "gelatinous goo." He now likes the Wolf.
Class III + Wolf = more shootin'.
Tomac
Member
I've used Wolf in my AKs exclusively for years w/o problem. I even went so far as to fire 1,000 rds each through 2 5.45 SAR-2s before cleaning and again, no problems. Accuracy? The Wolf std 7.62x54 loading is capable of *sub-moa*: Wolf 7.62x54 & Romak-3
Wolf works for me, YMMV...
Tomac
Wolf works for me, YMMV...
Tomac
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