non-firearm options in NY state for self defense?

[LeonCarr]

Don't rob me just yet, lemme put on these loaded gloves .

The cane and the training advice are spot on. I would do that instead of using butterfly knifes and stuff like that.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[glistam]

Also remember that a knife in self-defense only has been reliably shown to do two things: Scare, and kill. That leaves a huge gap in the center on the force continuum. Knives have their place, but are never a complete SD solution by themselves.

Don't forget pepper spray. Yes NY has some restrictions on buying it, but if you live out of state and travel there this doesn't apply unless you want to buy it in NY and not PA. Even then, it just requires that you buy it from approve stores, not get a permit or anything.

 

[drsfmd]

hey everyone.. im in pennsylvania, but im pretty close to the NY border and do a lot of business there and dont want to deal with what it would take to get a NY state CCW permit, if even possible for an out of state individual...

The only way you could get a NYS permit is to move to NY. There's no reciprocity with PA or any other state. You can't carry at all in NYS, for ANY reason.

 

[Owen Sparks]

A stick when used properly is almost always non-lethal. Just stay off the head, throat and back of the neck. The prime targets are the opponants hands, forearms and knees. He can't fight without those in good working order even if he is so doped up that he can't feel pain.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

NY
Small 3 inch blade lockback ie a Bear and Sons Locking Sodbuster.
A Minmag lite in AA.
A feed store Stock Cane. They are hardwood plain jane and very stout.
A good ink pen all steel cross, or my favorite is the 701 Zebra it is machined out of SS and writes great.

 

[jason41987]

well, a knife can do only two things, scare, and kill.. but like a gun, dont use it unless you have to kill... its only self defense if you have no other choice... i think ill probably end up with a kabar in my boot with my pantleg covering it, thats legal and about the only place i can keep one that wont stick out, or hinder my own movements

 

[jason41987]

this is interesting... batons, stun guns are both illegal in NY state, and pepper spray you need to register meaning a resident can just as easily get a handgun, and anyone can use a knife.... odd, to protect people they make the non-lethal solutions harder to legally implement than they do the lethal ones

 

[SleazyRider]

Would somebody be kind enough to post a link or photograph depicting the exact type of cane we're talking about? Thank you!

 

[jason41987]

what i think im going to do is take the money ive been collecting and find a new state while im still unrestricted in doing so.. no family of my own, no long term career, theres nothing keeping me here any long so i think ill just research a few states, pick one, and leave... someplace coastal with great fresh and saltwater fishing maybe... or back to AZ

 

[Carl Levitian]

"well, a knife can do only two things, scare, and kill.. but like a gun, dont use it unless you have to kill... its only self defense if you have no other choice... i think ill probably end up with a kabar in my boot with my pantleg covering it, thats legal and about the only place i can keep one that wont stick out, or hinder my own movements"


A boot or ankle is the absolutely worst place to carry a weapon outside of a Hollyweird movie. If something does happen on the street, you won't be able to get to your weapon. The bad guys are not going to stand back while you have to bend over or stoop down to retrieve your knife. If you are going to carry a knife, then make it one that you can have in a jacket or pants pocket and be able to slip your hand inconspicuously into the pocket and have your weapon right there in your hand. Fractions of seconds count. Thats why a cane or steel pen right there in your hand to start with is a nice thing. Don't pull a weapon to scare, they won't be impressed.
Carl.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Farm supply store stockyard canes, as used in showing livestock - these from http://ranchers.net/kerndt/caneflag.htm but widely available both on the web and in farm/ranch supply stores.

On the left in the picture below is a hardwood stock sorting pole, sorting poles are also offered in fiberglass. There are three typical crook-top hardwood canes on the right.

 

[hso]

a knife can do only two things, scare, and kill

Nope

BTW, you'll probably find the knife you've chose to cause problems for you carried in your boot. The guard is large enough to rub on the side of your calf. If it does, you'll find another knife to carry soon enough. Also, if you're stopped an searched by the cops you're probably going to have a difficult time convincing them that you're carrying a 7" combat knife as anything other than a dangerous weapon.

 

[SleazyRider]

Thank you, Fred!

 

[jason41987]

well mostly what i walk around in are regular pants, a t-shirt, and my boots which are about mid-calf height, i wear them because i do a lot of outdoor stuff such as fishing where i end up stepping in deep mud and other things i dont want to get inside a shoe... so in a boot and under a pantleg is about the only place i could place a fixed blade that wouldnt be seen... but if theres legal issues when that, then obviously id look for another solution

 

[hso]

Boot knives were typically flat with minimal guard for a reason.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Ever tried to recover something out of your boot in a high stress situation such as a mugging? A stick in your hand beats a knife in your boot, or pocket every time.

 

[hso]

But he says he's not carrying it with the intent to use it on anyone so it won't matter if he carries it concealed in his boot with his pants over it. He obviously can't be meaning to carry it for defensive purposes since he'll never be able to get to it in time to use. He just wants a 7" KaBar combat knife as a EDC.

Jason, cut the Rambo theme and settle on a practical compact 3-4" fixed blade that you can use as a tool in your hunting/fishing/hiking activities and forget all the goofy stuff.

 

[MAKster]

One problem with a cane is that if a mugger sees you using one he will likely think your are elderly or disabled and an easy target. So the cane will possibly increase the likelihood you will be attacked.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"One problem with a cane is that if a mugger sees you using one he will likely think your are elderly or disabled and an easy target. So the cane will possibly increase the likelihood you will be attacked."

That's fine with me, let him make the mistake.

Are you at all familiar with the operation of the Q-ships? These were harmless looking old steamers that looked like easy pickings to a U-boat. So easy in fact, the U-boat was loathe to waste a torpedo on it, preferring to surface and sink it with the deck gun instead. Big mistake. The run down looking tramp steamer was in fact a heavily armed warship in disguise, and when the U-boat came to the surface to shell the steamer, it got blown out of the water. The false cargo crates on deck would drop away and some very potent artillery would reveal itself, and that was the last sight the crew of the U-boat would have.

So when that inner city hoodie comes real close and tells you to give it up, close enough that you can spit in his eye, you bring that stick up sharply right between his legs into his cajones and make sure he can't multiply. When he gets that close, you just slide your hand down the shaft under the grip a coupe inches and snap up into the target area. Works like a charm. Yes, its a dirty underhanded move, but it really works. Doubles them right over and as they go down, you can gee them a nice blow across the back to the head to finish the matter.

I don't believe street encounters call for the Marquess of Queensberry rules. In fact, I don't believe in the Marquess of Queensberry at all in life. I like it when they under estimate me, and get in real close.

Carl.

 

[hso]

Funny how people make assumptions about what some low life might think about someone with a cane, especially when there's nothing to base the assumption on.

It may be reasonable to wonder whether a low life would see the cane as marking you as an easy target, but it is far from reasonable to leap beyond that.

 

[alaskanativeson]

The best defense would be the preparation you can (and will) put in your head, and the training you can put in your body. If the idea is self defense, mental preparation and the will to act is first and foremost. Take defense classes of some sort. MMA, Tai Chi, Kenpo, or whatever defense/mental strengthening will help you grow into someone responsible and capable. Physical preparation is (or at least should be) part of that.

As for tools, you have to look at motivation, rather than selection. Many people come here looking for one of three things:

1) The lastest and greatest end-all be-all of zombie slaying machinations with which to slay the coming Army of Darkness. I usually suggest going to the fantasy section of a BudK catalog. They have some cheap head choppers.

2) The latest and greatest Green Seal Foreign Legion Beret Mossad inspired Tactikool pocket launched MIRV anti-personnel device that'll make the buddies drool with envy.

3) (Hopefully the largest group) People who have had or realized a change in situation where they feel a need to learn more from others that are a little more "in the know" than some of the populace. If this is the group the OP belongs to, please feel free to listen and take what you think applies, but don't discard any of what you hear, just file it away for future possible enlightenment. There's a VAST wealth of knowledge here. I know, I've picked up some truly valuable nuggets in my time here.

One STRONG suggestion I'd give, is that if more than one person on here actively discourages a practice, there's probably a valid reason for it. Some here are LEO or similarly experienced personnel, others have simply had a lot of experience with them.

Now, on to my two cents for protection: I carry a very thick and heavy pen, it can be and has been used as a short staff (kubotan) with decisive results. I have a back that occasionally acts up, so I often carry a cane. It's light, it's fast, it's tough, and if someone (other than maybe George Foreman) thought of me as a victim, they'd soon learn two things: Don't assume, and learn to apologize quickly before that pain becomes permanent.

 

[drsfmd]

Without a specific exemption in state law for butterfly knives, which I don't see in NY law nor has anyone here provided, I would keep mine at home and carry a commonly available knife instead (and I LIKE balisongs and have several, at home). There is specific exempting language in some states making it clear that certain types of knives are NOT illegal, but I don't see it in NY so if you could educate me on the specific statute protecting you from individual officer interpretation where it exempts butterfly or balisong knives I would truly appreciate it.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ny-supreme-court/1304713.html

NY law expressly forbids: Switchblades*, Gravity knives, Ballistic knifes (flying blades), double edged daggers, and "knuckle knives"... think 1917 trench knives as an example. The link I posted above is to the case that determines that butterfly knives are not ballistic knives and are therefore legal.


*Switchblades have a curious loophole in NY law, where one can use and possess a switchblade with a valid fishing, hunting, or trapping knife, but I don't know of any company that will ship them to NY for civilians... so it's probably a moot point.

 

[drsfmd]

pepper spray you need to register meaning a resident can just as easily get a handgun

Not correct. There's a piece of paper you fill out to buy pepper spray in NY. You then pay for it and walk out the door... no "registration" like an amendment to a pistol permit at all.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Farm supply store stockyard canes, as used in showing livestock - these from http://ranchers.net/kerndt/caneflag.htm but widely available both on the web and in farm/ranch supply stores.

On the left in the picture below is a hardwood stock sorting pole, sorting poles are also offered in fiberglass. There are three typical crook-top hardwood canes on the right.

The second one from the Right is about 36 inchs long and will with some adjustments fit 90% of US men.
They are an inch to an inch and a half around.

 

[glistam]

Not correct. There's a piece of paper you fill out to buy pepper spray in NY. You then pay for it and walk out the door... no "registration" like an amendment to a pistol permit at all.

Not only that, the OP lives in PA and just happens to travel into NY sometimes. He doesn't have to do anything special to get or carry it at all, even if he takes it into NY. NY only regulates sale and purchase, not ownership and carry.