North Carolina Handgun Permit Laws

[paladinj]

I read about the NC handgun permitting laws and they require a permit for every one purchased or received. It's surprising to me that people in such a State would agree to this practice, but who am I to question.

If someone manufactured a handgun from an unfinished frame, that was not legally a firearm when they acquired it, would that not avoid the requirement to receive such a permit? After all, the State law explicitly says that a license is not required for possession of a rifle, shotgun or handgun. Only to then institute the Jim Crow purchase permit requirements tacked on to that statement for buying or receiving.

Weigh in folks, is self manufacture requiring of a permit or not?

Is this the most recent version of the act?

Note: "It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless:"...

Possession is not prohibited, and to create something out of nothing is not purchasing, nor in my opinion, receiving. If you manufacture something from nothing, at least in the legal sense, have you "received"?

 

[paladinj]

Also, if we are going to discuss this, I think we should separate the discussion into what is legally true and what is practical. Simply saying that you will be arrested like a criminal and convicted in some rural county for 20+yrs because of the "yain't frum 'round 'ere" factor is valuable, and important to recognize, but does not tell the whole story. If the discussion would focus on that, I would ask, well despite that what does the law really mean?

 

[Frank Ettin]

....I think we should separate the discussion into what is legally true and what is practical. ...

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. However, what we discuss in the Legal Forum is what the law is and how it works based on statutes and case law.

We sometimes see folks who want to introduce 'folklore' about how "no [X County] prosecutor will prosecute that" or "no [X County] jury will convict for that" into the discussion to suggest that one should make decisions based on that rather than what the laws say. Even when true (and sometimes it's actually not) it's unreliable since attitudes change.

Let's stick with law.

 

[MrBorland]

I read about the NC handgun permitting laws and they require a permit for every one purchased or received. It's surprising to me that people in such a State would agree to this practice, but who am I to question.

The permits (purchase and CCW) are issued by your county of residency. In my county, you get 2 purchase permits per application. I can't recall the limit, but in my county, you're limited to the number of permits you can get per year.

At any rate, this is one the reasons many just get their CCW permit, as it also functions as a purchase permit.

 

[FL-NC]

I live in NC and have for about 15 years. A CCW trumps the need to obtain these purchase permits. The application to get the permits contains essentially the same questions as a 4473. The permits are $5 each. They are valid for 5 years, they must be obtained in the county in which you are a resident, but they are valid state-wide at any gun shop. To get one requires the applicant to go to the county courthouse 2x- once to apply, the next to pick them up- generally M-F, banker's hours (I guess each county can do as they please). This means that the process of getting a permit is inconvenient for most people- especially those with jobs. There is no uniform system county to county as it relates to the appearance of the permit, but they are numbered and they do expire. All long gun purchases in NC (if the transferee doesn't have a CCW) require a FBI instant check by the dealer, and of course ALL transfers require a 4473.

As per Sheriff Peterkin, of Hoke County, only 2 permits will be issued annually to an individual. Sheriff Moose Butler of Cumberland (an adjacent county) authorizes up to 5 permit applications at a time- technically, one could apply for 5 daily. There is no state mandated maximum approval time on issuance of these permits. In one county, it may be 3 business days. In another, who knows. So no standard throughout the state for these state mandated permits. BTW, Sheriff Peterkin AND Sheriff Butler will not sign NFA paperwork, either- even though there are no county laws prohibiting these items.

So, the requirement for citizens of the Tar Heel State (who aren't CCW holders) to get these purchase permits is redundant and antiquated- the phone-in FBI check can perform the same task at the dealer, more efficiently, and save the buyer from 2 trips to the courthouse. Therefore, it is my opinion that this system is still in place to make it more difficult for people to legally obtain a handgun, and/or for the counties to try and get $5 richer every time someone does decide to get one.

 

[daverich4]

BTW, Sheriff Peterkin AND Sheriff Butler will not sign NFA paperwork, either- even though there are no county laws prohibiting these

I'm under the impression their permission either is no longer required or won't be at some time in the future. It's about two thirds of the way down in this article.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160108/obama-issues-executive-actions-on-guns

 

[gc70]

Since July 1, 2015, North Carolina General Statutes § 14‑409.41 generally requires Chief Law Enforcement Officers to make certifications of NFA paperwork that are not prohibited by law.

Nothing in this section shall require a chief law enforcement officer to make a certification the chief law enforcement officer knows to be untrue, but the chief law enforcement officer may not refuse to provide certification based on a generalized objection to private persons or entities making, possessing, or receiving firearms or any certain type of firearm the possession of which is not prohibited by law.

 

[paladinj]

OK guys so what is someone manufacturs their own pistol, would that require a permit in NC?

That was literally the whole point of my post and noone touched on that subject.

 

[MrBorland]

I didn't touch on that because I'm no expert, and can only pass on what I understand to be true. IMO, to get an answer you can rely on, you'd need the legal advice of legal pro.

That said, as I understand it, an "unfinished frame" someone "acquired" would be acquired from a manufacturer and would therefore have a serial number and require a permit to purchase. Someone who personally makes an unfinished frame in their garage might be able to put said gun together and own it, but they won't be able to sell (or give) you the frame (or the gun).

 

[paladinj]

It has no serial number and is not a firearm according to ATF and Gun Control Act of '68

AKA it is before the stage a block of unmachined steel becomes considered a firearm, or for the purpose of this discussion we could say that the individual also machined the whole thing from a block of steel and then assembled the frame, which he turned into a handgun/firearm from that unmachined steel.

The question is, did he "receive" this newly manufactured firearm in the interpretation of this law, because the law clearly did not say possession or manufacture.

 

[Frank Ettin]

....it is before the stage a block of unmachined steel becomes considered a firearm, or for the purpose of this discussion we could say that the individual also machined the whole thing from a block of steel and then assembled the frame, which he turned into a handgun/firearm from that unmachined steel.

The question is, did he "receive" this newly manufactured firearm in the interpretation of this law, because the law clearly did not say possession or manufacture.

I'm cutting this off at this point.

If the OP is asking because of a real life situation, this presents a novel and complex question of law. That would be beyond the scope of this Forum. If someone needs to have an answer because this is a real life situation, he needs his own lawyer.

If this is just a thought experiment, it looks like we're just not going to get anywhere.