Northern Illinois University Shooting

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Though I've had a good academic career, days like today make me think that perhaps I should leave academia. At least students are only temporarily disarmed, I am disarmed for my whole life and I am the one standing in the front of the class ready to take the first blow.

Someone does bring up a good point -- if one of these gunmen shot up an administrative building with the president of the university, I am sure things would get changed fast.

On second thought, they would just reallocate half of the campus police to serve as full-time bodyguards for the university royalty.....so much for that idea.
 
Yes...A moment of silence and prayer for the dead and wounded. Then a moment of outrage for the fact that everyone in that situation was defenseless. And then let's think about how it might have been different.

jakemcoy wrote:
See recent Colorado church case. Improvise as necessary according to personal skill level...The alternative of "ducking and hoping" is worse.
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Again...I could not agree more. Take him out. I did not mean to imply in an earlier post that I did not know what the goal should be. My question had to do with tactics. How to get it done in the safest and most effective way?

As you mentioned, in the Colorado church incident, the civilian security improvised by taking cover until the shooter passed and then hit him at close range from behind (at least that is my understanding of the incident). Brilliant and effective!

However, in a crowded auditorium, the crazy bastard has the high ground (the stage), an open field of fire, and several weapons. You have no idea when or if he will need to stop and reload (at least until there is a lull in the shooting). Let's say a student has an (illegal) j-frame in his pocket. Should he take cover behind a seat, wait for the lull, then stand and fire a with his snubby at 100ft? Wait for the lull, then charge the stage and hope like hell you can get there before he gets another loaded weapon in his hand? I don't know...that is why I'm asking.

I'm not talking about the heroics we all hope we would be able to execute - I'm talking about real-world tactics in this specific situation. I don't think any of us can accurately answer that question not having been there - but we all hope that we can work it out if it happens to us.

I guess "Improvise as necessary according to personal skill level." is about as good an answer as we have.
 
Posted two weeks ago after the Tinley Park Mall shooting:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=336425
JKimball said:
I don't see how Illinois legislators can possibly feel right about denying people the ability to carry their own protection when it seems these multiple shootings are becoming almost commonplace in the news.

I also don't see how the people let them get away with it.
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If you live in Illinois you have a moral obligation to let your voice of OUTRAGE be heard.

I'll politely disagree with those who say that now is not the time to speak out, that it is more important to politely and quietly remember the victims. Now is the time to speak out loudly in the defense of potential future victims.
 
I used to live in Illinois, I have a friend I went to middle school with who was attending NIU, she's saying she's ok and that everyone just started running so she was able to get out of there. I'll be calling her in a bit.
 
I do not want to use those who are victims to push a political agenda
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Thing is, it's not a political agenda. It's common sense, and about safety. Do we let this happen again, or do we push to remove the defenseless victim zones?

Remember - guns weren't "political" until the 1960s.
 
rainbowbob,

I'm sure you'll agree that every situation is different. So, there is no rigid "Plan A" beforehand.

Here's how I'd approach it. I'd take a page out of a successful athlete's approach to game day: Just do it. I've tattooed that saying onto the forefront of my brain.

If I’m carrying my Glock 27, I immediately duck (taking cover if possible), pull out my piece and seize the opportunity to take shoots at a real live criminal that needs to go down. If I’m in a place where I’m out in the open, well, I’ll be there anyway without the gun. So, just do it.

Read my post above about the maniac shooter being a coward. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. It gives me confidence.

-Jake

P.S. Don't bring up heroics because that's not what I'm talking about either. The church lady from Colorado also shunned the idea of being called a hero.
 
in a crowded auditorium, the crazy bastard has the high ground (the stage), an open field of fire, and several weapons. You have no idea when or if he will need to stop and reload (at least until there is a lull in the shooting). Let's say a student has an (illegal) j-frame in his pocket. Should he take cover behind a seat, wait for the lull, then stand and fire a with his snubby at 100ft? Wait for the lull, then charge the stage and hope like hell you can get there before he gets another loaded weapon in his hand?
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In the ideal world, that unfortunately has insane crazy bastards like this, you would have 5% of the students legally carrying their j frame for just such a situation. In an auditorium filled with 400 kids that leaves 20 students with at least 100 rounds ready to deal with the problem. When I went to college I was required to take 1 year of phy ed classes. In my ideal world a mandatory personal defense class with firearms training would be among them. Of course it wouldn't be long and the elites would be telling us such training along with CCW are unnecessary since these types of incidents wouldn't be happening anymore.
 
Thing is, it's not a political agenda. It's common sense, and about safety. Do we let this happen again, or do we push to remove the defenseless victim zones?
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What I was implying is that I have nothing but sympathy for the victims' families. My thoughts are with them first and foremost. However, this is a prime illustration of the failure of gun-free zones.
 
Kiss your guns goodbye : (
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Well with that attitude we might as well. We're weeks from the Heller decision, things may have a big turn around.

Hang on and keep up the fight. This can turn around once people get fed up with these "victim zones" and realize the "gubment" can't take care of them.
 
how many kids died or were wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan today? anymore, we're lucky to get so much as a body count at the end of the month.

what were their names?

5 rangers died in a helicopter crash on the same day Dale Ernhardt hit the wall. What were their names? Why didn't Chevy do a commemmorative vehicle for them?

I feel like the citizens of this country send their troops off to defend us, and pay little attention when they are KIA and WIA. their lives are just as valuable as college kids.

I had someone tell me that soldiers and Marines "know what they are getting in to" and "are trained for these situations" as though it makes it okay that their lives were sacrificed. as though a 17-year old kid from middle America has any idea what a firefight feels like. I don't, and I'm a lot older and already did my time.

My point is not to minimalize today's tragedy. My point is that the media, the public, the politicians don't care enough about what happens to middle and low income kids in a combat zone. they can't identify with them, because they don't know what it means to serve. present executive leadership included. (no disrespect to Guard members that defended more than Texas).

sorry. I'm off my soapbox.
 
It seems to me that in pretty much every incident like this when the aggressor is confronted with equal or greater force the game is over
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True statement. Remember the mall shooting in Salt lake city? An off duty officer pinned the perp by firing his revolver, and may have prevented further deaths.
 
i'm sick of all these idiots in their black trenchcoats making grief for everyone....... what the he!! is wrong with this place? i'd be afraid to send any sons or daughters to these GUN FREE killing zones:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
You know if I were to go back to college I think I would carry my ccw even it was against school policy. With all this crap happening I'd rather live and break the rules than abide by gun-free zone restrictions and end up dead. I mean honestly this is getting pathetic, the criminals don't care about gun-free zones so who is honestly supposed to be stopped from carrying, law abiding citizens, that's who. So these zones force citizens that normally are able to try and defend themselves from maniacs like this to become sheeple.
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+1
 
Firing in the general direction of the students, he emptied his clip of ammunition and calmly reloaded before resuming firing.
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He was only able to do so because he was legally guaranteed no interruptions.
 
Maybe the victims should sue the school for not guaranteeing their protection after ordering students to leave their legally owned firearms at home... after forking over several million dollars perhaps the administration would change their minds about CCW on campus.
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problem is... several of the states have passed laws making it to where SCHOOLS ARE NOT LIABLE FOR THESE ATTACKS...
 
How many more British Redcoats must die? We must disarm the rebels and ban them from having guns.

I don't see how the fundamentals have changed just the actors.
 
So, guys... Are you going to sit there, typing at people who feel the same as you do, or are you at least going to dash off a quick note to a school official? A school newspaper? Or TV station?

How many of you have kids, relatives, or friends who are victimized by victim zones?

We've got to go after the media and the administrations. Change the rules. Change the mindset. Because that's the ONLY thing that will stop this from happening.
 
4/21-4/25 are the dates for SCCC's empty holster protest nationwide...

http://www.concealedcampus.org/


I was working on a you tube video for a facebook group I am on titled women for firearms education, sort of a firearms 101. As soon as I hit upload, I began checking the news and other message boards and saw the story. I have a video here with my reaction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_siZcw2jWtU

Very, very sad day. I was fuming listening to Nancy Grace on this. She called for metal detectors at all doors and entrances of every dorm and every learning hall at colleges. Basically said since we were able to do it with airports and court houses, why not colleges. Her guest remarked, "Well in an ideal world we could"...to that effect.
 
A terrible tragedy indeed.
This comment from the Chief of Police is interesting.
Especially if no one else is armed chief.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/14/university.shooting/index.html
Grady said the man used three guns during his rampage -- a shotgun, a Glock pistol and a small-caliber handgun -- and was still on the stage when he turned one of the guns on himself. The small-caliber handgun has not been recovered, he said. He said the shooter started with a shotgun, then switched to a pistol.

It appears that he acted alone, Grady said.

"As much as we do, it's unlikely that anyone would ever have the ability to stop an incident like this from beginning," he said.
 
Chauncy? I have a short question for you. How many did our soldiers kill over there today, this week, this month? If we are killing at the rate of 100 to 1, I am proud and pleased with our soldiers in the war zone.
In our colleges, how many bad guys are we killing? Ten in one year, and we would NEVER see this happen again. I think we (students, or citizens) need the ability to shoot them down like dogs, with no consequences.

The only GOOD gun control, is being able to hit your target.
 
Thing is, it's not a political agenda. It's common sense, and about safety. Do we let this happen again, or do we push to remove the defenseless victim zones?
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While it may be common sense to us, we have a long way to go still with showing other people the logic behind it. Even with as much progress as we've made and as many states with ccw as there are, most states still ban carry in places like colleges.
 
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