Prince Yamato
Member
I hope this inspires some of the law makers to push for the CCW campus bills in the states where they're sitting in committees.
Northern Illinois University Shooting
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txgolfer45
Member
I feel sorry for the victims. They are left defenseless by the State of Illinois and likely NIU administration as well. 
When I hear about these shootings, I just shrug. I am not going to get all worked up about a problem I did not create. I am going to save my limited supply of sympathy for my own family. If I spent it on the people killed in “safe zones” by wacko nutjobs, I would have none left when my family needed it. These shootings occur over and over again. Our nation does not learn. Whatever. Not my problem.
FourNineFoxtrot
Member
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- Jun 24, 2007
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- 361
I used to go to NIU. Now I'm even more glad I left.
Nothing to say it couldn't happen at the college I go to now, though.
Maybe one day, they'll realize that safety can't be legislated, and let us protect ourselves effectively. Until that day, I'll just have to stay sharp and keep my running shoes on.
Maybe I should invest in one of these:
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/bulletproof-backpack-5108-black.html
I'd be tempted to wear the vest I already have... but I sweat enough already (not to mention the inevitable detainment by campus police).
Nothing to say it couldn't happen at the college I go to now, though.
Maybe one day, they'll realize that safety can't be legislated, and let us protect ourselves effectively. Until that day, I'll just have to stay sharp and keep my running shoes on.
Maybe I should invest in one of these:
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/bulletproof-backpack-5108-black.html
I'd be tempted to wear the vest I already have... but I sweat enough already (not to mention the inevitable detainment by campus police).
Sadness? What I feel is ANGER. AGAIN. The solution is obvious, but "there are none so blind as them that hath eyes but will not see". The only answer to a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun. Or better yet, a bunch of good men with guns. And the skills and mindset to use them without hesitation when the flag flies. Skills, Mindset, AND Hardware.
And compounding my anger is that by this time tomorrow, the Media will have the the Nutjob's name and picture plastered all over the Nation's TV screens, and be reading his scribblings on the air. Life not workin' out so well for ya? Want to spread your misery? Wanna go out with a bang? Just murder a bunch of people, and the Media vultures will give you the fame (or more properly, infamy) that was lacking in your sorry life........
It ain't like it's the first time:
http://p207.ezboard.com/fccwnebraskafrm10.showMessage?topicID=32.topic
And it won't be the last, so long as these losers keep getting glorified....
And compounding my anger is that by this time tomorrow, the Media will have the the Nutjob's name and picture plastered all over the Nation's TV screens, and be reading his scribblings on the air. Life not workin' out so well for ya? Want to spread your misery? Wanna go out with a bang? Just murder a bunch of people, and the Media vultures will give you the fame (or more properly, infamy) that was lacking in your sorry life........
It ain't like it's the first time:
http://p207.ezboard.com/fccwnebraskafrm10.showMessage?topicID=32.topic
And it won't be the last, so long as these losers keep getting glorified....
You know, we all should feel sadness, because the Presidential candidate from the state of IL, cannot even comprehend this. According to his laws this should never have happened. Gun laws keep guns out of the hands of ppl that shouldn't have them. What now? The laws are wrong and must be re-written.
Right off his website and not even one of his major issues (but instead under other issues.)
"Barack Obama did not grow up hunting and fishing, but he recognizes the great conservation legacy of America’s hunters and anglers and has great respect for the passion that hunters and anglers have for their sport. Were it not for America’s hunters and anglers, including the great icons like Theodore Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold, our nation would not have the tradition of sound game management, a system of ethical, science-based game laws and an extensive public lands estate on which to pursue the sport. Obama recognizes that we must forge a broad coalition if we are to address the great conservation challenges we face. America’s hunters and anglers are a key constituency that must take an active role and have a powerful voice in this coalition."
This guy has no clue!
Right off his website and not even one of his major issues (but instead under other issues.)
"Barack Obama did not grow up hunting and fishing, but he recognizes the great conservation legacy of America’s hunters and anglers and has great respect for the passion that hunters and anglers have for their sport. Were it not for America’s hunters and anglers, including the great icons like Theodore Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold, our nation would not have the tradition of sound game management, a system of ethical, science-based game laws and an extensive public lands estate on which to pursue the sport. Obama recognizes that we must forge a broad coalition if we are to address the great conservation challenges we face. America’s hunters and anglers are a key constituency that must take an active role and have a powerful voice in this coalition."
This guy has no clue!
RNB65
Member
Don't put any stock in any of the comments regarding response times and who did what. It's too close to the event and there's way too much confusion and fog right now. It'll take time to piece together exactly what happened.
When the Virginia Tech review panel completed its detailed analysis of the events of April 16, both the timeline and sequence of events differed significantly from what was stated by school officials and police in the days immediately after the shooting. In some cases, the difference was huge.
.
Prince Yamato
Member
Instead of the same old bitching, how about we write the folks who make the laws. This is simply ridiculous. These types of crimes shouldn't happen. We know why they happen but we all sort of shrug and say, "we are powerless to stop them." Well, the hell we are. Crazy people will do crazy things. We merely need to be able to respond to them with appropriate action. In this case, the appropriate action would be to fill the crazy SOB with as much lead as magazine capacity and finances allow you to.
Who do we write in which states? Should we begin a stickied thread with generic letters or outlines? Hell, let's send them to every damn state in the Union. This garbage needs to stop. There's NO reason why we shouldn't be able to defend ourselves against this kind of violence.
Curiosity kills me though, did the university implement one of those emergency warning systems like all the other schools in the country did after VT. "Attention, Attention! Your classmates are currently being murdered, please stand by!" Yeah, those were real effective. Or maybe the school invested in a rapid response team. I'm even more curious, do the campus police stock body bags?
Who do we write in which states? Should we begin a stickied thread with generic letters or outlines? Hell, let's send them to every damn state in the Union. This garbage needs to stop. There's NO reason why we shouldn't be able to defend ourselves against this kind of violence.
Curiosity kills me though, did the university implement one of those emergency warning systems like all the other schools in the country did after VT. "Attention, Attention! Your classmates are currently being murdered, please stand by!" Yeah, those were real effective. Or maybe the school invested in a rapid response team. I'm even more curious, do the campus police stock body bags?
Winchester 73
member
You were doing more than making conversation.If you are delusional,you personally confirmed it.We don't need panic stricken messages at a time like this.
This is a time to be strong,not a time for weak kneed rhetoric.
I don't know what state you are in, but I'll you bet this:Every gun you own now(assuming you don't dispose of it voluntarily)will still be in your possession 10 years from today.$1000.00 dollars for every gun.
Are you game?
Standing Wolf can hold the money.Let me know,conversationalist.
bogie
Member
It's not the legislators we need to reach.
It's the opinion makers.
If we can reach the folks at the universities and in the media, they'll reach the legislators for us. Otherwise, no matter how much we talk to the legislators, they'll fight us. They are the ones who we need on our side, and the only way they're going to do that is if they decide it's their idea.
It's the opinion makers.
If we can reach the folks at the universities and in the media, they'll reach the legislators for us. Otherwise, no matter how much we talk to the legislators, they'll fight us. They are the ones who we need on our side, and the only way they're going to do that is if they decide it's their idea.
bogie said:
The change you are looking for will only come when the electorate demands it.
I firmly believe that, as a whole, the electorate gets what it deserves when it comes to government and the law it makes and enforces. You personally may be getting screwed, punished for the idiocy of others. Well, that is just the way it is. Trying to change the hearts and minds of a nation of sheep is all fine and dandy. In my mind, more important is doing whatever necessary to provide security for yourself and those you care about. The sheep may be slaughtered, but if they are not your sheep, why care?
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Prince Yamato
Member
Because if you have an ounce of morals you would defend the life of your fellow man even if he had a difference of opinion from you. I'd also want someone to do the same for me or others I care about who may not be carrying. It's called courtesy and human compassion. What about the freshmen, who are too young to legally carry, should they be allowed to be slaughtered. I feel your apathy towards bad school policies, but I still care about my fellow man enough to want legislation in place to allow law-abiding citizens to carry guns on campus.
bogie
Member
With all due lack of respect, either lead, follow, or get out of the way of the folks who want to make things better.
Interesting that you don't give a damn, but a lot of folks do. And if those people can each persuade others, than the overall system can be altered.
So let folks who are trying to make things better actually maybe accomplish something, okay? You can sit back, and mutter to yourself that we're being stupid all you want, just keep it to yourself.
And mods, you really don't wanna even THINK about what I'd like to be typing here...
Interesting that you don't give a damn, but a lot of folks do. And if those people can each persuade others, than the overall system can be altered.
So let folks who are trying to make things better actually maybe accomplish something, okay? You can sit back, and mutter to yourself that we're being stupid all you want, just keep it to yourself.
And mods, you really don't wanna even THINK about what I'd like to be typing here...
bogie
Member
Okay. Congratulations on being the center of your universe. So kindly allow folks who are working for a better situation to at least try to sway public opinion in our direction? You may even reap some benefits from other folks' actions. Of course you probably won't like that...
If this State had CCW:
A. This would not of happened due to the perp not knowing who was armed at the time and either gone somewhere else or done something else.
B. only a few shots would of been firied and the perp would of be down, with the casulty count allot less than it is. That is assuming that the school would of allowed ccw on campus...
This also goes in line with the other shooting that just occured at a Lane Bryant Clothing Store here in Illinois. A prep came entered the store and shot 6 ladies, one survied. She could only give a limited account and description. The local political answer was to mandate security camera's in all retail stores in Illinois. This way they could film the problem and not stop it. I believe that if just one of those ladies had a gun and was willing and able to use it, there would not be 5 dead ladies.:banghead:
In order to Keep the Peace, one must be willing to defend it! Neither Illinois or Wisconsin will let it's people do that...
At this point I should Cuss my job and family for keeping me here... No, It's Daley's fault and all those persons that vote to keep the anti's around.
Oh, let's keep in mind (Daley would say) that it was the gun's fault and not the triger finger... Rant Off!
My deepest sympathies to the victims and their families...
A. This would not of happened due to the perp not knowing who was armed at the time and either gone somewhere else or done something else.
B. only a few shots would of been firied and the perp would of be down, with the casulty count allot less than it is. That is assuming that the school would of allowed ccw on campus...
This also goes in line with the other shooting that just occured at a Lane Bryant Clothing Store here in Illinois. A prep came entered the store and shot 6 ladies, one survied. She could only give a limited account and description. The local political answer was to mandate security camera's in all retail stores in Illinois. This way they could film the problem and not stop it. I believe that if just one of those ladies had a gun and was willing and able to use it, there would not be 5 dead ladies.:banghead:
In order to Keep the Peace, one must be willing to defend it! Neither Illinois or Wisconsin will let it's people do that...
At this point I should Cuss my job and family for keeping me here... No, It's Daley's fault and all those persons that vote to keep the anti's around.
Oh, let's keep in mind (Daley would say) that it was the gun's fault and not the triger finger... Rant Off!
My deepest sympathies to the victims and their families...
chris in va
Member
Yes, yes it is. Watch legislation go down the toilet if we don't stand up for our rights.
Or should we do all the work for you?
JeremySmith
Member
This is on Reuters right now:
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKRA48086720080215?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true
Gunman kills 5 and then himself at Illinois college
Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:55am EST
By John Gress
DEKALB, Illinois (Reuters) - A black-clad man fired into a lecture hall packed with students at an Illinois university on Thursday, killing five people and wounding 18 before shooting himself dead, police and college officials said.
The gunman, who police said had a shotgun and two handguns, stepped onto the lecturer's stage near the end of a mid-afternoon geology class at Northern Illinois University and began shooting down the room, sending terrified and bleeding students fleeing, witnesses said. He then shot himself on the same stage.
Police on the 25,000-student college 65 miles west of Chicago said the gunman was a former student but they did not publicly identify him and said they did not know the motive in the latest in a series of shootings at U.S. colleges and high schools.
University President John Peters said there had been a "very brief rapid fire assault that ended with the gunman taking his own life." He said those killed by the gunman were all students -- four women and one man -- and that 4 were in critical condition in hospitals. The instructor teaching the class survived, he said.
"I ducked behind the seats and ran out the door," student Zach Seward told the local Daily Chronicle newspaper.
"As I was running, I just kept waiting for something to hit me in the back. I didn't know where to run, tried to decide where it's safe to be, and there isn't anywhere safe."
FORMER STUDENT
Peters said the gunman was a sociology major who last attended classes as a graduate student in the spring of 2007 and who may have since enrolled at a different college. He said he had no police record or previous contact with police.
One student told local radio that roughly 140 students were in the classroom when the man opened fire. Ambulances swarmed onto the snow-covered campus and classes were canceled for the rest of the day and Thursday.
"Some girl got hit in the eye, a guy got hit in the leg," George Gaynor, a student who was in the hall told the Northern Star, the student newspaper on the campus.
Kristina Balluff, a student, said the gunman was dressed in black pants and had fired randomly from the raised classroom stage.
"I looked at this girl next to me and actually said, 'is this real?' I think the professor ... ducked out of the way."
Mass shootings are not rare in the United States, where gun control is less strict than in many countries and where the gun-ownership lobby is politically influential.
A university in Blacksburg, Virginia, Virginia Tech, became the site of the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history in April last year when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
Last week, a nursing student shot dead two women and killed herself in front of horrified classmates at a college in Louisiana.
In December, a threat was found scrawled on a wall at Northern Illinois University referring to the Virginia shooting and threatening similar violence, but officials said they had no reason to link that to Wednesday's incident.
(Reporting by Andrew Stern and Michael Conlon; Editing by Stuart Grudgings)
I added the emphasis. What upsets me more than the senseless loss of life is the general ignorance of people that say it was caused by easy access to guns or the "gun-ownership lobby". Um yeah, thats right - it's my fault because I support the 2nd amendment? Illinois is one of the worst states for gun ownership, the last thing that they need is more laws, the gunman was already breaking a few before he even pulled the trigger. Morality is not a virtue that can be legislated. Add more laws if you like, and bash law-abiding gun owners a little more, but at the end of the day there is still only one way that the gunman could have been stopped once he decided to kill innocents. By someone else with a gun. PERIOD!
I just sent this to Reuters:
I just got through reading the article written by John Gress entitled “Gunman kills 5 and then himself at Illinois college”. A well-written piece, save for one line. “Mass shootings are not rare in the United States, where gun control is less strict than in many countries and where the gun-ownership lobby is politically influential.” I take offense to the notion that I am somehow responsible for the actions of the gunman, since I actively support the second amendment. It also should be added that Illinois is one of the states with the strictest firearms laws in the Union. The gunman was breaking a host of laws even before he started shooting innocent students. In the future, it would be nice if Mr. Gress would at refrain from interjecting unproven “facts”, and strictly reporting what has happened. Thank-you.
Jeremy Smith
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSKRA48086720080215?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true
Gunman kills 5 and then himself at Illinois college
Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:55am EST
By John Gress
DEKALB, Illinois (Reuters) - A black-clad man fired into a lecture hall packed with students at an Illinois university on Thursday, killing five people and wounding 18 before shooting himself dead, police and college officials said.
The gunman, who police said had a shotgun and two handguns, stepped onto the lecturer's stage near the end of a mid-afternoon geology class at Northern Illinois University and began shooting down the room, sending terrified and bleeding students fleeing, witnesses said. He then shot himself on the same stage.
Police on the 25,000-student college 65 miles west of Chicago said the gunman was a former student but they did not publicly identify him and said they did not know the motive in the latest in a series of shootings at U.S. colleges and high schools.
University President John Peters said there had been a "very brief rapid fire assault that ended with the gunman taking his own life." He said those killed by the gunman were all students -- four women and one man -- and that 4 were in critical condition in hospitals. The instructor teaching the class survived, he said.
"I ducked behind the seats and ran out the door," student Zach Seward told the local Daily Chronicle newspaper.
"As I was running, I just kept waiting for something to hit me in the back. I didn't know where to run, tried to decide where it's safe to be, and there isn't anywhere safe."
FORMER STUDENT
Peters said the gunman was a sociology major who last attended classes as a graduate student in the spring of 2007 and who may have since enrolled at a different college. He said he had no police record or previous contact with police.
One student told local radio that roughly 140 students were in the classroom when the man opened fire. Ambulances swarmed onto the snow-covered campus and classes were canceled for the rest of the day and Thursday.
"Some girl got hit in the eye, a guy got hit in the leg," George Gaynor, a student who was in the hall told the Northern Star, the student newspaper on the campus.
Kristina Balluff, a student, said the gunman was dressed in black pants and had fired randomly from the raised classroom stage.
"I looked at this girl next to me and actually said, 'is this real?' I think the professor ... ducked out of the way."
Mass shootings are not rare in the United States, where gun control is less strict than in many countries and where the gun-ownership lobby is politically influential.
A university in Blacksburg, Virginia, Virginia Tech, became the site of the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history in April last year when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.
Last week, a nursing student shot dead two women and killed herself in front of horrified classmates at a college in Louisiana.
In December, a threat was found scrawled on a wall at Northern Illinois University referring to the Virginia shooting and threatening similar violence, but officials said they had no reason to link that to Wednesday's incident.
(Reporting by Andrew Stern and Michael Conlon; Editing by Stuart Grudgings)
I added the emphasis. What upsets me more than the senseless loss of life is the general ignorance of people that say it was caused by easy access to guns or the "gun-ownership lobby". Um yeah, thats right - it's my fault because I support the 2nd amendment? Illinois is one of the worst states for gun ownership, the last thing that they need is more laws, the gunman was already breaking a few before he even pulled the trigger. Morality is not a virtue that can be legislated. Add more laws if you like, and bash law-abiding gun owners a little more, but at the end of the day there is still only one way that the gunman could have been stopped once he decided to kill innocents. By someone else with a gun. PERIOD!
I just sent this to Reuters:
I just got through reading the article written by John Gress entitled “Gunman kills 5 and then himself at Illinois college”. A well-written piece, save for one line. “Mass shootings are not rare in the United States, where gun control is less strict than in many countries and where the gun-ownership lobby is politically influential.” I take offense to the notion that I am somehow responsible for the actions of the gunman, since I actively support the second amendment. It also should be added that Illinois is one of the states with the strictest firearms laws in the Union. The gunman was breaking a host of laws even before he started shooting innocent students. In the future, it would be nice if Mr. Gress would at refrain from interjecting unproven “facts”, and strictly reporting what has happened. Thank-you.
Jeremy Smith
Illinoisans may want to hit this thread in Activism:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=338226
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=338226
real good atitude there... fact is, things like this will be used to justify further bans and laws that will affect you...
not only that, many of the people here are students and have no choice but to attend classes in places that have the exact same policies as this school did...
the nation is starting to learn, at least now you actually hear people say that the "gunn free zones" are the problem on tv... 10 years ago we couldnt even get that...
but if its not your problem then im sure youll be fine when they show up at your door saying that you cant own firearms because some kid shot up a school... and dont think it cant happen
bogie
Member
Guys, let's not get worked up over people who don't get that we're all in this together.
Now, a few of you will likely read this on Friday morning. Act on it. If you're a student, call your dean of students, your campus security, whatever... Send a note to your campus paper. "What is being done to ensure my safety?" Likewise, if you have family in school, ask the same question. We have 60,000 members here. We have MAJOR numbers. We need to use them to get people THINKING instead of emoting.
Now, a few of you will likely read this on Friday morning. Act on it. If you're a student, call your dean of students, your campus security, whatever... Send a note to your campus paper. "What is being done to ensure my safety?" Likewise, if you have family in school, ask the same question. We have 60,000 members here. We have MAJOR numbers. We need to use them to get people THINKING instead of emoting.
bogie
Member
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-02-14-guns-shooting_N.htm
Guys, USA today article that is somewhat leaning toward rational thought. All these folks need to be asked "How can I be safe?" Keep it simple, and don't get all gun-nut on 'em, and let them lead themselves.
Guys, USA today article that is somewhat leaning toward rational thought. All these folks need to be asked "How can I be safe?" Keep it simple, and don't get all gun-nut on 'em, and let them lead themselves.
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