Norway tragedy: politics proposing further gun control laws

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At some level, a person bent on doing harm to another will find a tool that will do the job. Eventually you come down to bare hands. Folks have been strangled for centuries.
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You mean like hijack a tanker truck full of gasoline & drive it full speed into as crowded place as you can find?

I doubt I gave any nuts ideas there. If I can come up with that off the top of my head in all of a second, surely those intent on doing harm thought of it too.
 
If the killer bought his gun through a legal channel, then it only gives pro gun control people steam, and over in Norway it indicates that stricter gun laws might be the next (mistaken) step. Like anything else, be it guns, civil unions, abortion etc., just because a minority abuse that right gives no bigwig to ban it altogether.

The grand majority of the laws have no legitimate purpose (Code 922 for example). Hopefully, what happened there will have no bearing on what happens here.
 
Sadly there are just some threats you cannot defend against, and protection only goes so far. At some point you just have to take an element of risk and allow many different firearms to be sold, or allow people on planes without a full cavity search.

To ban entire classes of weapons and deprive thousands of law abiding citizens defense and a popular pastime is not the answer.
 
If this happened in the United States the Assault Weapons Ban would already have been reenacted.
 
Norway has managed to make sheep of it's people and is leading them to the slaughter.
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threedfeathers, I think you're way off base here. From talking with my relatives in Norway, there doesn't seem to be any stigma with gun ownership. The reality is that up until now, Norway has had very low levels of crime...so firearms for self-defense were not common. The only real concern was for invasion (a remnant of being occupied in WW2) which has died down as a threat after the Cold War.

I suspect that you may find more Norwegians applying for firearms for home defense (and I imagine it will be much harder for the government to argue it would be unnecessary). We'll have to see what happens, but Norwegians tend to be very pragmatic so I'm hoping we won't see a knee-jerk reaction like you might in other countries. Anyways, my point is, anyone familiar with Norway would not call the Norwegians sheep.

Owen, there is still a king (Harald V), but it's a much more subdued affair than in the UK. He's really a figure head but by all accounts not at all aloof; my relatives say it was not all that uncommon to see him just walking around Oslo (though that has changed a bit since the assassination of Olof Palme in 1986). Thanks for passing on that quote Sebastian the Ibis.
 
Hi,
To answer some of the tings in this tread.

There is a organization similar to NRA in Norway its called Norsk våpeneierforbund.

You can have 6 hunting guns whit out to much problems, if you have the training. If you need more you have to have very well documented reasons.

You can also have rifles for long range shooting, target shooting (DFS)(But you can't use these guns for hunting).

If you are clever and shoot much, you can have lots of hand guns one (in some cases 2) for every shooting program.

And yes there has been some connections to the US, he bought 10, 30 rounds mags on the US. He could have purchased them in Norway but hey were to expensive.

PMK
 
Really?

And yes there has been some connections to the US, he bought 10, 30 rounds mags on the US. He could have purchased them in Norway but hey were to expensive.
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Seriously? He was able to buy and import hi-caps from the US? I find that kinda surprising - not just in his ability to do so but maybe even that it didn't raise any red flags at your customs.

As an aside, I always thought that the Norwegian "liberal" take on firearms was due to the memory as to how quickly the Nazi's overran them in WWII. Hopefully that memory overshadows this tragedy.

Like a poster mentioned above, more people might be buying firearms for home-defense but the leap to CCW I suspect is too great for ANY European gov't to stomach, regardless of the cultural attitudes about firearms.

What MIGHT happen, is a few owners of handguns (and from the sounds of it, their numbers in Norway might be material) might start packing "illegally".
Should one of them intervene successfully to stop a similiar incident in the future, then everything gets turned on its head.
 
It's not illegal to import mags to Norway, and there it a lot of guns in Norway every third Norwegian has a weapon.
 
The_Shootist said:
Seriously? He was able to buy and import hi-caps from the US? I find that kinda surprising - not just in his ability to do so but maybe even that it didn't raise any red flags at your customs.
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Ordering hi-cap magazines from the US isn't exactly uncommon and the customs couldn't care less, magazines aren't regulated in most european countries at all. Strangely enough, I've purchased magazines from norwegian retailers a couple of times.

As far as illegal CCW is concerned, it happens at least in Finland. As long as you can prove you're on your way to/from a shooting range, it's legal to carry on your person as long as the gun isn't loaded. Having full magazines with you is borderline illegal. We've had our fair share of school massacres, two that is, and in neither one anyone else had a gun.

Antis had a field day, though, and recent changes in legislation have made me, for example, ineligible for further hadgun permits because I can't show two years worth of active shooting hobby in the supervision of a "gun instructor". It doesn't matter that I already own several dozens of guns and, nowadays, shoot about 7-8k rounds a year. All this to "reduce gun violence".

Gee, I already feel a lot safer.
 
The list of country's whit the most weapons is USA, Finland, Yemen, Switzerland and Norway. The problem for us in Europe is that is getting harder to import guns and parts from the US just to much paperwork. The worst part is getting it out of the US It's much simpler to get it in.
 
Someday I need to visit Norway, family came from there in 1824. :) As for magazines, importing them INTO the US can be a pain - ask me about my trial getting a vz-58 20 round magazine last year, when US Customs got involved.
I would hope this helps change the laws for the better, for self defense, but I doubt it.
 
At some level, a person bent on doing harm to another will find a tool that will do the job. Eventually you come down to bare hands. Folks have been strangled for centuries.
Click to expand...

You mean like hijack a tanker truck full of gasoline & drive it full speed into as crowded place as you can find?
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Or a commercial airliner and fly it into a sky scraper..........

If this happened in the United States the Assault Weapons Ban would already have been reenacted.
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We've had several high profile shootings since the AWB sunset. The usual suspects always wave the bloody clothes of the victims before the bodies have even cooled, clammoring for more laws. But by and large, people in this country have generally changed their views since 9-11. Instead of screaming for more gun control, people who never wanted guns before became gun owners. Every time one of these incidents happens, the local gun shops and CCW instructors get innundated for a time. Shoot, half of the clientele at my buddy's shop where I help out are brand new to the world of firearms. The overwhelming majority of them basically share the same sentiment: They've figured out that they are responsible for their own safety and have decided to add one more tool/skill to their self preservation kit.

Believe me, if big O thought for one second he could push a new AWB through, he would have. But his political capital is in dire straights, and he seems unwilling to sacrifice what little he has left in such an attempt.
 
The anti gun crowd will do the same old song and dance they do for every gun related tragedy. We with logic just have to point out obvious flaws in their approach. For instance, how disarming everyone leaves people vulnerable to mass murderers until the police finally get there.

Evil people can go on rampages at any time. The worst thing to do is to disarm almost everyone (even the police?!!), except those that would do malicious harm.

Allowing for concealed carry, arming all police officers with at least a sidearm and making it harder for people with mental problems to buy firearms (and tons of explosive material) will go far in preventing this sort of tragedy from repeating. More gun control will do the opposite.
 
making it harder for people with mental problems to buy firearms (and tons of explosive material) will go far in preventing this sort of tragedy from repeating. More gun control will do the opposite.
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Please explain to the rest of us how restricting firearm ownership from a class of people who are not criminals is not gun control.

And to take it further, what are "mental problems"? Depression? Anxiety? PTSD? How many doctors have to concurr with the diagnosis? Who decides which "problems" warrant forfeiture of 2A rights?
 
Ben86 said:
The anti gun crowd will do the same old song and dance they do for every gun related tragedy. We with logic just have to point out obvious flaws in their approach. For instance, how disarming everyone leaves people vulnerable to mass murderers until the police finally get there.

Evil people can go on rampages at any time. The worst thing to do is to disarm almost everyone (even the police?!!), except those that would do malicious harm.

Allowing for concealed carry, arming all police officers with at least a sidearm and making it harder for people with mental problems to buy firearms (and tons of explosive material) will go far in preventing this sort of tragedy from repeating. More gun control will do the opposite.
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Can you explain why gun control is bad and why explosives control is good? What are some of the theoretical differences you see? There was a time in the United States when anyone could buy dynamite freely at the period equivalent of a Wal-Mart and the world didn't descend into chaos. The necessity of regulating anything is at best a myth and at worst a lie.
 
What the media fails to mention is that he originally attempted to procure his weapons in Prague, due to BBC reports that the Czech Republic was a haven for illicit gun trafficking. As you know, the Czech Republic has some of the most liberal gun laws in Europe. If you are a citizen in good standing, you can even get a concealed carry permit.

He failed. He completely failed. He even brought along a vehicle with hollowed out rear seats. He also mentioned he felt safer in Prague than in Oslo. Prague has one of the lowest crime rates out of all the European capitals.

Interesting.
 
txs for thelinks to Massad Ayoobs articles on Israel.

After the shooting in Holland last april, one of our leading newspapers in Belgium (de standaard) mention that gun control doesn't work and they stated the Israel example. Now for israel: every Jew, male or female, is due to forfil an extensif military service (and training) so people are always prepared.

To clarify some obvious confusion, the politic who wants more gun control is BELGIAN, not Norwegian, and he is looking for very strict EU regulation, so a local, national "NRA-type" organisation won't cut it, we would need a European pro-liberty organisation.

greetings

Peter
 
As usual the root cause of this incident and others like it around the world will be swept away and instead dismissed as just some nut job with a grudge.

Funny though when governments commit mass murder, somehow its okay and justified and no one is ever prosecuted.

As has been already stated so well, no amount of laws will stop these incidents from happening in the future. More laws means more crimminals, many of whom don't even know it.
 
Actually the main stance of the populace & govt seems to be:

Don´t let islamists, islamophobes, racists and christian fundamentalists
take away our freedom. They want to keep their open society.

If the shooter had known this would be societies´reaction, he would have probably shot himself instead.

Norway has a lot of space, game, and guns. And is one of the moste peaceful countries in the world. And they do like that.

It´s not black&white. Never.

They have awesome social-care for their citizens - and liberal gun-laws.
And the combo of both makes it a better place than the US or my homecountry. IMHO.
 
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