Not draft dodger....war resister....yeah right

[Tharg]

I believe strongly on this subject... and i'm sure that my opine will be looked upon lesser for not being old enough to have been drafted (hell almost not even born)... maybe a bit more because i voluntarily went to the Navy, no concern about what "gulf war" we were in... or hell - even where i'd be stationed... I'm sure it will all be just more youngin talk about what they don't know....

But i've teared up reading this whole thread... and its because of americans who DID go... when they were called... and defended THIS country... not because the media spinned it into a nice lil - "what does Viet Nam have to do w/ the great state of america's defense" diatribes ... I'm just about sick of the media as it is... all the spin is ... odd...

Afganistan (sp?) ... who armed Bin Laden... showed him how to work the system? huh? oh ya us... and then.. we "left" and left them to thier own adventures that inevitably made them hate us for leaving (i'd almost bet my life on this presumption.....) we "left" every time we've lost... ever realize that? WWI and WWII once we commited... we were there till the end... every other time we've taken it in the butt... because we left... we didn't finish the job... try doing that on yer house and then blame the builder that it fell on yer head...

The lot of us think politics is easy... and hell i'll even say i'm one of em... I think it should be a job that one person gets one term and thats it... no career politics... period... there is too much pressure and capital in getting re-ellected or getting that next post.... that it stops being for the people by the people... so every time you go "political war" you act like any of us think war is great and we like seeing our son's and (now) daughters comming home dead.... like someone who supported the war thought "oh ya... i love seeing our boys die..."

Or today... ya i love seeing my boys die... people i might have known in the marines or army... now dead.. like thats a great big "woo hoo" in my head. What i don't want is us not to FINISH... to complete what we started...

How does that all fit in w/ this thread? It fits in because when the country called on its people... to fight something it considered really important... be it intelligence or analysis that YOU personally were not privy to due to its classification... SOMEONE thought it was a good idea... and i have a SERIOUSLY hard time thinking that ANY SANE person would think that w/o a "big picture" look at how the world is... something even CNN doesn't necessarily privy us to. (in a world much different than the viet nam era, albeit still media spun...ratings man... RATINGS matter....then and now)

SO do i ask myself... should someone have served were they "drafted, conscripted, slaved" to the war... and my answer is yes... if they asked me today (told me i mean... draft right?) to go back to the service... i'd go... the freedoms i consider dear are ever harder to guard in a day and age when the world ain't... is not.... and won't go back to the way "it was" ...

I consider it a duty, that americans chose willingly in the past... and do currently... a duty that is often said to my face that "I wouldn't do man - i appreciate you tho!!!" as if that is a compliment... as if I feel like my life is lesser than yours... as if i feel the defense of this nation is more my duty than yours... I consider the runner.. cowardly, the man who accepted his duty, honorable, and the person who in a democratic society that refused and went to jail, honorable in his own right - altho lesser in my eye than those that served and continue to. If those that refused to go out numbered those that chose to go, and went to jail, maybe there would have been a societal shift... to change national policy, a momentum in a different direction that while not necessarily better for the country when you can see it in a world view... is still the chosen direction of the people.

And then who knows... maybe everything would have imploded in nuclear fire... hell... could still happen... ain't like the weapons/science dissapeared.

i blather long enough

Love to my Nation, our Military, our way of life, and the ability to live it that way.

J/Tharg!

 

[DRZinn]

If I were considering enlisting and the draft were reinstated, I'd not only not enlist, I'd dodge the draft as well.

Slavery is slavery.

 

[Art Eatman]

In the WW II and Korean era, the draft wasn't about forcing the unwilling to go get shot at. It was about an orderly flow of personnel to meet the needs of the time.

There is only so much room in training camps. The system can only equip and train a limited number at any one time.

I dunno. From my viewpoint which comes from a lot of years watching this country, we've become a society of spoiled brats. We've had it really, really easy for decades, Vietnam or no. We seem to take it as some sort of right to have cheap gasoline, to have total freedom to do any little old instant-gratification thing that strikes the fancy. Nobody needs to be polite or courteous or give a rat's patoot about anything going on outside our borders.

It's like danged near 300 million who work in the Office of Navel Contemplation, occupied with careers in picking fly poop out of pepper.

The national warcry is, "It's my right!" with no knowledge that for every right there is a concomitant responsibility. "Responsibility" seems to have disappeared from the national lexicon.

I received my "Greetings" from Ike in November, 1953. Best thing that happened to me. It was a legitimate way to "drop out" and grow up. It taught me that after sticking my finger into a glass of water and then removing it, I was as important to the rest of the world as the hole that was left in the water.

And it truly set me on my path to earning and meriting, working for, whatever respect I've ever gained.

Rant mode off...

Art

 

[jsalcedo]

I received my "Greetings" from Ike in November, 1953. Best thing that happened to me. It was a legitimate way to "drop out" and grow up. It taught me that after sticking my finger into a glass of water and then removing it, I was as important to the rest of the world as the hole that was left in the water.

That's about the best post I've read regarding this subject.

 

[roo_ster]

What Art Said

I dunno. From my viewpoint which comes from a lot of years watching this country, we've become a society of spoiled brats. We've had it really, really easy for decades, Vietnam or no. We seem to take it as some sort of right to have cheap gasoline, to have total freedom to do any little old instant-gratification thing that strikes the fancy. Nobody needs to be polite or courteous or give a rat's patoot about anything going on outside our borders.

It's like danged near 300 million who work in the Office of Navel Contemplation, occupied with careers in picking fly poop out of pepper.

The national warcry is, "It's my right!" with no knowledge that for every right there is a concomitant responsibility. "Responsibility" seems to have disappeared from the national lexicon.

It is human nature to take, take, take and to cry out, become enraged, and pound the table with their spoon when asked to give or share. Watch some toddlers & infants for a while: nobody has to teach them to grab hold of a toy and scream, "Mine! Mine! Mine!"

Our civil society has devolved to the "Mine! Mine! Mine!" level, as can be demonstrated by many posts. Oh, it can be couched in purple prose, but it boils down to the same thing: "I don't wanna," and "I am willing to reap the benefits, but not work to sew the seed."

The same sort of trend and views can be seen in most of the formerly great civilizations. First, Rome's military was recruited from the entirety of the citizenry. Second, it gradually was professionalized, as Roman citizens did not want to give up their pampered lives to serve. Third, it was "outsourced." We currently are at stage two and slipping to stage three (as we admit illegal aliens to the armed forces).

 

[coylh]

I feel I serve my country best when I work to prevent war and empire, rather than abet it.

 

[Strings]

>I feel I serve my country best when I work to prevent war and empire, rather than abet it.<

Not to be arguementative, but many antis feel that they help make the country a safer place by pushing for restrictions on the Second Amendment. Does that make their feelings correct?

 

[coylh]

Hunter Rose, not in my opinion.

But, it might be worth talking about how you would prove their beliefs are wrong.

 

[Strings]

Oh no... not me! I know the problems with proving a negative. And I'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out the problem with your statement. Now, if you said "I believe x because of these reasons (list)", it would be a different story...

 

[coylh]

Ok. But I don't see the problem you were pointing out yet.

I tend to use feel, believe, think, etc interchangeably. Is that what you mean? I was never very good at epistemology.

 

[Strings]

Yeah... I think you understand what I was getting at. thinking is different from feeling

 

[c_yeager]

Yeah... I think you understand what I was getting at. thinking is different from feeling

Not everything is an intelectual decision (thats a funny word to mispell). It makes logical sense to sacrifice the life of your child to save the lives of 2 strangers, that doesnt make it the *right* decision to you. Sometimes "feelings" are all that you have to go on, and in that situation, there is nothing wrong with doing so.