Not so hypothetical situation....

[itgoesboom]

Was driving home from work about 2 weeks ago, and noticed something happening, that put me a little on edge. Not to the point of drawing, but it definatly moved me up to condition Orange.

I just want to see what everyone thinks this situation was.....I am leaving out some information that helps clear it up, until I post later on.

Location:

Outside of a small town, 2 highways converge. 4 lanes seperated by 5-20ft of grass in between each lane. 2 Lane road runs perpendicular to the 4 lanes.

If you are going north, there is a 2-way light (hwy splitting into 2), if you are going south, there is a 3-way light (2 hwys merging).

At the 3 way light, the right lane goes first, then left, (both going south) then the road going east/west.

Perpendicular road going east to west, private driveway to a farm to the east, and a road out of town to the west.

This is a spot where you have never seen anyone pan handle, hitchhike, or step out of their vehicle.

Situation:

You are travelling south, 2nd car out of about 8 sitting at the traffic light. The road going east/west has the green, so you are going to have to wait for 2 traffic signal changes before you can pass the intersection.

Older junky car (car A) going west stops between the north and southbound lanes, and pulls into the grass. One passenger gets out, and starts to walk away from the car.

The other passengers wait, despite having a green light, and appear to be encouraging the person who got out. Their car is about 30 yards away, to your 10:30.

The person walking (person A) looks back at Car A and watches as the other 3 people in car A point to your truck. Person A starts walking directly towards your car door. Everyone in Car A seems to be yelling encouragement towards Person A, although since your window is rolled up, you can't hear what it is.

Person A is now making direct eye contact with you, and is clearly moving towards your vehicle, ignoring the other vehicles in the group.

While you can occasionally see Person A's hands, you can't see any weapon.


Ok, now the question.

Is this person a threat? Is this the start of a car jacking?

I will post later on what happened directly after this, which will add more clues, as unfortunatly, I still don't know for sure. But the above information is all I had to go on until Person A got to less than 20' to my door.

I.G.B.

 

[mattw]

by that time my vehicle would be in drive if i could get around the car infront of me and i had a clear escape route and as the person got closer i would either drive off or stay put as his intentions became clear. If driving away was not an option i would have drawn and been locked and loaded(making sure the weapon is not visible to him), ready to start firing through my side window (which would remain closed). Doors always locked windows always up, radio off, keep checking your mirrors incase of aditional threats from behind.

If I didn't have a firearm i would do the same thing except i would have a knife or tire iron or other heavy object ready to do some serious damage. Don't get out of the car though. Keep it in drive as long as there is a possible threat.

As all of this is happening if you have a cellular phone I would be talking to my most reliable contact that could back me up in a fight and call the police while they're on the way, either my father or brother.

 

[griz]

Doesn't sound like a car jacking to me, too much confusion and much too obvious. But I don't know what the guy is up to, so if he gets too close I will pull around the car in front, run the red light, and watch in the mirror to try and figure out the puzzle.

 

[taliv]

odds are against it, but who knows?
maybe they just want directions?
maybe it's a fraternity prank of some sort?
probably panhandling

i don't know much about car jackings, but if i were so inclined, i'd probably begin from the rear hoping for suprise, rather than the front, making eye contact.

 

[itgoesboom]

i don't know much about car jackings, but if i were so inclined, i'd probably begin from the rear hoping for suprise, rather than the front, making eye contact.

That was my assesment as it was happening too. I felt something was happening, but I wasn't sure, since if it was a car jacking, their tactics sucked ass. This, and the fact that I didn't see any weapons are the reason I didn't draw my weapon.

Matt,

I unfortunatly made the error of stopping too close to the car in front of me to be able to pull around and get away. As stated above, I didn't know exactly what was happening, so I didn't draw, but my weapon was on my hip, and my hand was right there, so it wouldn't have taken long.

Ok, now for the rest of the situation.

Person A got under 20ft from me, and I started to get a little more nervous. I still had a red light, and there was a car infront of me, and I was too close to pull around (my mistake :banghead: ). As he got to under 20ft though, a Police car pulled up on the east/west road, facing east, so opposite of car A.

Person A immediatly stopped moving. Well, I should say his feet stopped moving, he almost fell over since his body was still going. For the next few seconds, he was almost frozen in place, seeming like he was debating whether to continue to walk towards me, or walk back to his car. His weight shifted back and forth, and he had a pretty shocked look on his face.

The people in Car A started to act more nervous as well.

At this point, our light turned green, and I got out of there very quickly.

So now what do you think?

I.G.B.

 

[one-shot-one]

i have found

in like situations that firm eye contact, a frown and shaking your head no will break the persons will to continue towards you, if not be prepared to defend yourself. but usually them knowing that you see them and have no intention of affirming "anything" they want will cause them to break contact and seek a more "willing" contact.

 

[CAnnoneer]

Well, I'd roll down my window a bit to hear what they are yelling. This is a very unusual situation, so I'd collect more info. Jumping to conclusions is almost certain to produce wrong results.

I'd relate my own story with similar ambiguity.

SETUP:

I was in my car in the right lane on a city street, waiting on a red light. There were cars in front, in the back and on my left. I was about 30 feet from an intersection.

As I was minding my own business waiting for the light to change, I noticed a lady and a girl in the car to my 10 o'clock in the left lane wave in an agitated fashion and shout something at me. It seemed like they were pointing to me and the front of my car.

The sequence of my thoughts in 0.64 seconds:
1) I ran somebody over and did not notice, so they are pointing to the bloody mess
2) I ran over a pigeon (common where I live, they have no fear of humans OR cars!)
3) My tire was blown
4) My engine was on fire
5) My hood was open
6) They are setting me up for something
7) Stop guessing and roll down the window so that you can hear them!

CONCLUSION:

Rolled down the window and heard:
"Sir, could we please go ahead of you to turn right?"

 

[epijunkie67]

I would have drawn and had my weapon held below window level. If this WAS an attempted car jack then he could have had a weapon in his pocket or under a shirt and I don't want to turn this into a quickdraw situation.

Griz
Doesn't sound like a car jacking to me, too much confusion and much too obvious.

You're making the assumtion that criminals are smart or have some kind of plan. Some are just stupid kids, or just plain stupid.

Drawing in my car where no one else can see is different than drawing on the street for everyone else to see. By having my weapon in hand but out of sight I decrease my reaction time if things go bad but no one outside the vehicle knows anything is wrong.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Sounds extremely bizarre, but the truth of the matter is you were probably the only person in your line of cars that even noticed or went to a highteneed alert. Most people are just plain lost as they wait for the light to change. Happens to all of us from time to time....

I would say you'll never know, but you're alive and so is your potential threat so it was a good day.

 

[itgoesboom]

Sounds extremely bizarre, but the truth of the matter is you were probably the only person in your line of cars that even noticed or went to a highteneed alert. Most people are just plain lost as they wait for the light to change. Happens to all of us from time to time....

You are probably right about that.

In my mind, even though there is no evidence to bring to the Police about, I count this in the 'win' column.

My goal in life is to avoid confrontations, and to difuse the situation before it even gets to the dangerous stage where most people might start to notice something is wrong.

I.G.B.

 

[TMM]

roll down the window an inch, and draw your gun. keep the gun hidden. under your leg or somthing. if he turns out to be a threat, show the gun and proceed to shoot if he dosn't haul ass outa there upon seeing the gun. if he wasn't, respond however he should be responded to.

since he stopped when the po-po car came by, i think that you would've been glad to have your firearm OUT of it's holster and ready to go bang bang if the car wasn't there...

~TMM

 

[bosshoff]

Just curious

What kind of vehicle were you driving?

 

[itgoesboom]

What kind of vehicle were you driving?

Red Chevy S-10.

I.G.B.

 

[mattw]

show the gun and proceed to shoot if he dosn't haul ass outa there upon seeing the gun.

TMM, HUGE MISTAKE! I thought stuff like that when I was a kid also but have since learned that you never show any weapon until you need to use it. Showing someone a gun or a weapon to try to scare them off is more than likey going to escalate the situation and if the badguy had a gun he is more likely to run away firing or just shoot you and take your stuff. If they see a weapon thier first thought is not "wow better leave that guy alone" and smile and walk away. they will think you are about to shoot. NEVER reveal you are carying a knife or gun or ANY WEAPON until it is time to start shooting or stabbing.

 

[CAnnoneer]

+1 mattw

The problem is perceptional. If somebody is waving a gun under your nose, it is reasonable to assume he intends to use it on you, at which point you may be justified to take him out in self-defense. Most people just wouldn't take the chance of being wrong. So if both sides are packing, this guarantees deadly escalation.

 

[TMM]

no, you misunderstood.

what i meant was, say he pulls out a gun/knife whatever as he is coming towards you [which is what i meant by "if he turns out to be a threat"] ... that is more or less clearly a threat to your life or wellbeing. as i understand it, you are now allowed to shoot, which is when i would bring the gun up. if he dosn't take the small window of time between drawing and shooting to back off, he is still a threat, and will be shot.

i hope that cleared up what i meant, and i hope what i said it correct, too.

~TMM

 

[mattw]

TMM, it is best to recognize your mistakes and admit them so that you can learn from them. I'm just telling it like it would go down. In that split second that he sees you're drawing it is much more likely that he will start shooting than run away. You can't count on that and you must assume that one of you will be shot and maybe dead in that split second. He should not have enough time to recognize the situation and make a decision to either run or shoot before you are filling him with JHPs or whatever you have. If he gets time to make a decision it may be the last mistake you ever make. These are just internet forums but you have to learn from your mistakes about situations like these while you are safe at your computer instead of in your truck getting shot up.

 

[TMM]

no, that's really what i meant... but...now i don't quite understand you.

i reread what you said, and what you mean, is that if he turns out to be a threat (pulls a knife, gun, etc like i clarified) i should shoot him as fast as i can, so he dosn't have a chance to even run away?(not that i'm saying "if he was going to run away it was wrong to shoot him!", mind you)

i guess that makes sence, you don't know if he's going to be scared or provoked...

~TMM

 

[mattw]

small window of time

There should not be one.

 

[LaVere]

Oh what to do?

Getting to my weapon while in the car in my normal left 9:00 position is very hard. I generally must lean over to the right so that my hand can clear the door arm rest and my left side. If I have a suit coat on it is even slower. What I do is
if I'm getting in to a situation I'll pre pull the weapon and lay it on the seat next to me. Maybe covered maybe not. NOTE HERE LAWS in states vary. In my state Michigan it is legal to have my gun on the seat in the open with your CCW. The gun IS NOT placed there for anyone BUT me to see and to aid in quick defence. I would have to use the gun with my weak hand but I do practice shooting with my right hand. At 5 to 10 feet with 7 to 11 shots depending which gun I have. I think I could stop the life threating threat.

 

[DigMe]

He was probably just going to ask you if you'd like to sponsor him in an upcoming charity Fun Run. He hesitated when he saw the police because he has a little competition going with those guys to get the most pledges.

brad cook

 

[4play]

MHO is that most BG's are terrible cowards, I know of several instances where a home or shop owner had thier gun in hand ready to fire when the perp saw them & ran like crazy. One instance the guy knocked him self out hitting his head on a piece of shop equipment . I agree you should not have your gun visible until you are ready to fire, but that split second before you do I think most BG's will bug out. They want easy money & dealing with an armed target ain't easy.

 

[silverlance]

as for firing

dont ever shoot a gun inside a car, esp with the windows rolled up.

you'll be deaf at least for life, or worse, you'll have internal damage from the shock bouncing around the car (unless u carry a .22 or so)