Notary seal on a trust and a copy notarized?

[Ranger Roberts]

So my wife just got her own trust (long story) and she is ready to jump into the wonderful world of NFA items. We took the trust to get notarized today and I noticed that the notary stamp wasn't a raised seal like the one on my trust (I've had mine for many years). The notary told me that PA no longer does a raised seal, just a stamp. I know it's a silly question but the BATF isn't going to reject that, right? Also, the notary asked for other copies of my trust to notarize. I told her we just need one and we send copies of the notarized trust in with our Form 4. She went on to say that whenever her husband does this, the copies he sends in with his Form 4 have to be notarized, not photocopies. Did something change since my last stamp was approved? She is probably full of it but I just want to make sure. Thanks everyone!

 

[MCMXI]

The ATF gets a copy of your trust which wouldn't have a raised seal on it anyway. As for having copies of your trust notarized to send into the ATF ... no, that's not required.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

The ATF gets a copy of your trust which wouldn't have a raised seal on it anyway. As for having copies of your trust notarized to send into the ATF ... no, that's not required.

Thanks! My last stamp was approved about 8 months ago, I got all nervous that something has changed since then!

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Zerox (or scan with e-forms) copy of your trust is what everyone does. ATF does not care about raised seals.

Mike

 

[Theohazard]

Like other have said, you'll be fine. They always only get a photocopy of the whole thing anyway.

And as a side note, trusts for NFA items don't necessarily have to be notarized. My trust lawyer said that early on he didn't require a notary stamp on his trusts, but he had a few ATF examiners who erroneously thought they required a notary stamp and they gave him trouble. Instead of argue with them, he just started requiring a notary stamp on all his trusts.

There are several gun shops in this area that offer generic trust paperwork to their customers, and that trust doesn't require a notary stamp (I even worked at one of those shops for two years). I've seen hundreds of NFA items purchased using those non-notarized trusts, and I've never once seen the ATF reject one because it wasn't notarized.

 

[Ryanxia]

This was similar to my question when filing for my first item, you couldn't see the raised seal on the scanned copy. Just wanted to make sure since it takes a while (even though eforms are quicker now).

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Like other have said, you'll be fine. They always only get a photocopy of the whole thing anyway.

And as a side note, trusts for NFA items don't necessarily have to be notarized. My trust lawyer said that early on he didn't require a notary stamp on his trusts, but he had a few ATF examiners who erroneously thought they required a notary stamp and they gave him trouble. Instead of argue with them, he just started requiring a notary stamp on all his trusts.

There are several gun shops in this area that offer generic trust paperwork to their customers, and that trust doesn't require a notary stamp (I even worked at one of those shops for two years). I've seen hundreds of NFA items purchased using those non-notarized trusts, and I've never once seen the ATF reject one because it wasn't notarized.

What makes a valid trust is totally up to state law. According to Legal Zoom, WA does not require it. Manys do. Some states require trusts be filed with the state in addition to being notarized. This is one of the reasons the ATF assigned primary examiners for groups of states a few years ago.

Mike

 

[Theohazard]

Thanks for the info, Mike, I'm always learning something from you here.

 

[HRnightmare]

all the paper forms I have done were copies, therefore NO raised seals.

The Eforms....obviously were not raised seals. I have had 6 forms approved with NO raised seals as recent as November 2014. NEVER a problem.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Originally Posted by Theohazard View Post
Like other have said, you'll be fine. They always only get a photocopy of the whole thing anyway.

And as a side note, trusts for NFA items don't necessarily have to be notarized. My trust lawyer said that early on he didn't require a notary stamp on his trusts, but he had a few ATF examiners who erroneously thought they required a notary stamp and they gave him trouble. Instead of argue with them, he just started requiring a notary stamp on all his trusts.

There are several gun shops in this area that offer generic trust paperwork to their customers, and that trust doesn't require a notary stamp (I even worked at one of those shops for two years). I've seen hundreds of NFA items purchased using those non-notarized trusts, and I've never once seen the ATF reject one because it wasn't notarized.
What makes a valid trust is totally up to state law. According to Legal Zoom, WA does not require it. Manys do. Some states require trusts be filed with the state in addition to being notarized. This is one of the reasons the ATF assigned primary examiners for groups of states a few years ago.

Often you will also need to think about what is required for a will under state law, assuming you want to pass along your collection through the trust. This often requires a self-authenticating affidavit of the witnesses. If you split you think you might retire to a warmer climate (FL, AZ, CA etc.) you might also want to make sure those requirements are satisfied too.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

All the stuff I've had to use a notary for lately has been stamped and does not have a raised seal anymore. Even my boss who used to have a raised seal has a stamp now. It must be cheaper... I think you'll be okay as the stuff I have to get notarized is scrutinized way more, legally speaking, than your nfa paperwork likely is. None of the judges have complained about the stamp and lack of a raised seal on my paperwork yet...