Nothing Works In Every Situation/Always Have a Backup Plan

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Jeff White

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Remember this story the next time you think you're ready for anything because you've got weapons and a little bit of training (hopefully you have training) Amnesty International will probably condemn the use of the Taser. But I don't want to deal with that issue here.

I'm posting this to remind everyone that no amount of training, no superhot OC, no Taser is going to work on every subject, every time. This subject wasn't shot, but I have to wonder how many rounds he'd have absorbed before he stopped fighting? I think a CNS shot would have been almost impossible to make it that fight. People can be hard to stop, no matter what you've got to stop them with.

Jeff

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...Headline=Violent+day+leaves+neighbors+stunned
Violent day leaves neighbors stunned
By Heather Ratcliffe
Of the Post-Dispatch
08/12/2004


Ernest Blackwell

Police know where onetime Mizzou football star Ernest Blackwell got the strength to nearly kill three people in Glasgow Village and toss aside up to 10 police officers who tried to stop him. But they have no idea where he got the will.

The rampage - with blows punctuated by shouts of "Touchdown! Touchdown!" - may have been fueled by some kind of drug, investigators said. That also might explain Blackwell's sudden death, at age 29, in an ambulance on the way to a hospital.

Whatever the reason, it was a bloody Wednesday evening in a north St. Louis County neighborhood still reeling from the apparently unrelated murder of two young children whose father is accused of smothering them in mud Monday afternoon along the Mississippi River.

Blackwell shot his 9-year-old stepdaughter with a shotgun, then turned on a 14-year-old neighbor with his fists and feet and was attacking that girl's stepmother in her home when the first county police officer arrived.

"We suspect that a narcotic of some kind, such as PCP or another drug, may be involved," police Lt. Jon Belmar said Thursday. "But that is just speculation at this time."

Autopsy results were pending.

Police and neighbors marveled at Blackwell's raw strength.

Patricia Bristow, a neighbor, watched as police struggled for up to 10 minutes with him, twice trying to subdue him with electric jolts from a Taser.

"He towered above them about a head and a half," Bristow said. "He was huge, like a brick house. And they couldn't get him down."

Interviews with witnesses and police provided this picture:

At dinnertime, children played in yards along the street while Blackwell and several family members talked on the steps of his home in the 10800 block of Spring Garden Drive.

An hour later, neighbors heard an explosion from inside Blackwell's home. Police said he shot his 9-year-old stepdaughter in the chest with a 12-gauge shotgun, then ran outside and rushed bare-handed toward three teenage girls standing in a driveway several doors down.

The girls ran, and two jumped a fence to escape. Blackwell caught the third, Ashley Davis, 14, who said in an interview Thursday that she had stayed back, thinking she could release her dog to protect them.

She recalled hearing him say, "Lord forgive me for what I'm fixing to do." Then he bashed his fist into her face and kept hitting and kicking her, yelling "Touchdown!" with each blow.

She said he also yelled that he hated women and repeated the number "Six, six, six."

Ashley said she pretended to be unconscious. When he walked away, she got up and ran, but he caught her and beat her some more. She finally passed out.

"I was just praying for Jesus that I'd make it through it alive," she said from her bed at St. Louis Children's Hospital.

Then Blackwell broke into Angela's home, leaving bloody handprints on the front door, and began beating the girl's stepmother, Trina Hicks.

A rookie county police officer, in the area on another call, arrived alone and interrupted that assault. Blackwell tackled the officer, who police said was nearly 100 pounds lighter.

During the struggle, Blackwell tried to grab the officer's pistol. The officer managed to eject the ammunition magazine to keep Blackwell from firing it, Belmar said, and hit a panic button on his belt radio.

More officers arrived, and one shocked Blackwell with a Taser. "To some extent, it worked," Belmar said. "But not ideally."

The officers managed to handcuff Blackwell, but he continued to struggle and ran outside. Police used the Taser again, and arriving paramedics gave him two injections of a sedative.

"Eventually he started to settle down," Belmar said.

Officers put Blackwell into an ambulance but he died before reaching the hospital.

Meanwhile, Bristow, who lives two houses from Blackwell, rushed to aid the wounded 9-year-old, lying on her front steps with a gaping chest wound.

"She kept saying, 'Why did he shoot me?' and 'I'm going to die,'" Bristow recalled.

The 9-year-old was reported to be in critical condition at a hospital. Angela remained hospitalized Thursday night, and her stepmother was treated and released.

Angela said she did not know Blackwell, except to exchange greetings on the street. There was no animosity between them, she said.

Blackwell's estranged wife was not at their home during the incident. But all four of her daughters were there. Only the one shot was injured.

Four police officers were treated for injuries. The first one in suffered a separated shoulder and cuts. "I commend these officers," Belmar said. "They ran into a very difficult situation with an unbelievably violent person."

Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch and Medical Examiner Dr. Mary Case will review the episode.

Police said Blackwell worked for the Judevine Center for Autism. No one could be reached there for comment.

Blackwell, 6-foot-3 and weighing 235 pounds, had been recruited by Missouri out of Eureka High School, where he had rushed for more than 3,000 yards, scored 50 touchdowns and was named to the Post-Dispatch All-Metro team.

Coach Larry Smith suspended him for the last two games of the 1995 season for violating team rules, and Blackwell announced that he wanted to leave school and return to St. Louis. But Smith wouldn't release him from his scholarship, explaining in an interview, "I wouldn't give him a release because he had no place to go. I felt that his only chance in football and in school was to stay right here."

Blackwell eventually returned to Mizzou, and as a senior fullback in 1997 he was a key contributor as the Tigers ended 13 years of losing seasons and earned a berth in the Holiday Bowl.

He showed enough potential that he was picked in the seventh round of the 1998 NFL draft by the Kansas City Chiefs. Blackwell left the Chiefs' training camp unexpectedly in July 1998.

"Ernest came to me and said that he had some issues that he was trying to deal with and wanted to go home," Chiefs coach Marty Schottenheimer said at the time. Blackwell eventually was allowed to return to camp but was cut by the Chiefs before the season started.

Mike Smith of the Post-Dispatch contributed to this report.

Reporter Heather Ratcliffe:
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 314-863-2821
 
Holy bleep.

This, folks, is a worst case scenario.

:eek:

The only bit of good news is that he must have used some sort of light target load in that shotgun?

The cops showed more restraint than I would have. Seriously. I can see justifying outright headshots :fire:. Dude managed to turn himself into a rabid animal, he should be put down like one.
 
Scary

And people want to know why, sometimes you have to use deadly force when someone does't have a deadly weapon on them.

Tough SOB. Probably PCP.
 
The officer managed to eject the ammunition magazine to keep Blackwell from firing it,
Very good argument for a magazine disconnect.

Guessing PCP. But it wouldn't suprise me if it was just paranoid schizophrenia. I think he'd take quite a few bullets before he went down.
 
I doubt he would have felt it if they had used 12ga. beanbags either. Sometimes you just have to get overwhelming numbers and swarm the guy.
 
I commend these police officers for doing WHATEVER IT TAKES, and thank God that backup got to that rookie officer in time.

In this scenario however, I doubt that if deadly force was used, such as a shot fired to the CNS, it would be considered unjustifiable.

I certainly hope the innocent victims, especially the 9-year-old girl who was shot, make a complete and speedy recovery.

Sincerely,
Matthew Webb
Franklintown, PA
 
Congrats to the officers, especially the first one on the scene, who literally put himself on the line to save that woman.

As a wise man in Tejas sez, don't train for "what if", train for "I am losing."

Buddy of mine who is a seasoned black belt was training with some friends when I showed up at his house. We got to talking about guns and training and he said, "This stuff is for when we run out of bullets"
 
I couldn't help but laugh when I read that the first officer on the scene was a rookie. At least now most of the stuff he'll likely encounter will seem pretty minor.
 
One of the deciding factors for me in choosing my USP45c as a carry pistol was the fact that it has a dedicated left hand safety. If I get into a situation like this and can flick the safety on the bad guy is going to have a hell of a time getting that gun working since the lever is on the the wrong side of the gun. One of the few times it is good to be a lefty in a right handed world.
 
This situation doesn't seem like anything that a REAL 12-ga loaded with REAL bullets would not have solved.

Probably would have opted for slugs for this scumbag. Drug or not, it'd be hard to keep doing much of anything with a 1" hole in the front of your chest and your heart vaporized behind you.

Well, I guess you could fall down.

Those non-lethal weapons are going to kill innocent people.

Those officers are lucky they are alive. I pity them that they are obligated to use them, whereas we are not.
 
Very good argument for a magazine disconnect
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Indeed.

I've always looked down at them, but this article has me rethinking that position. Thanks for posting it, Jeff.


I disagree. For a cop, a mag disconnect may make sense, as this case illustrates.

For a private citizen, I still consider them junk that will get you killed.

1) As a private citizen, your weapon is concealed until you need to use it. It isn't out in the open for some psycho to grab, unlike cops who wear them on their belts.

2) When you need to use it and the guy sees it, there should not be a whole lot of time at all between the time when you draw and start shooting.
 
Drjones said;
This situation doesn't seem like anything that a REAL 12-ga loaded with REAL bullets would not have solved.

Probably would have opted for slugs for this scumbag. Drug or not, it'd be hard to keep doing much of anything with a 1" hole in the front of your chest and your heart vaporized behind you.

I think you're missing the most important lesson of this story. My purpose in posting this story was to bring the point home that no weapon is always 100% effective. A real 12 gauge loaded with real slugs or buckshot may not have instantly solved the problem.

Probably would have opted for slugs for this scumbag. Drug or not, it'd be hard to keep doing much of anything with a 1" hole in the front of your chest and your heart vaporized behind you.

Ok Drjones, you're the responding officer here. According to the newspaper article, Blackwell was beating up a woman when the first officer arrived. Now let me get this clear, from your post I'm assuming you would have got out of the car with your 870 in hand, done a select slug drill, and vaporized Blackwell's heart with one well aimed shot? :scrutiny:

What about Trina Hicks? All I can say is that you're a better man then I am with a shotgun if you can confidently say you can make that shot, I found Louis Awerbuck's mover very difficult and it dosen't move nearly as fast and unpredicatably as a real fight. The only sure way to instantly stop that attack would have been a cental nervous system shot, the brain stem or occular nerves. A pretty small target. The heart is a somewhat bigger target but it isn't located in the exact same place on everyone you might meet and it's hard to destroy. An LAPD officer survived a direct hit to her heart with a .357 magnum a few years back. She managed to remain conscious for a long time and even clear her weapon. FBI agent Jerry Dove took out Matix's aorta with a 115 gr 9mm silver tip in the opening seconds of the infamous Miami shootout and he managed to stay on his feet and kill additional agents. But the wound was fatal, just not instantly so. Read the citations for some MOH winners. You'll get some idea of the amount of punishment the human body can take and still function.

I disagree. For a cop, a mag disconnect may make sense, as this case illustrates.

For a private citizen, I still consider them junk that will get you killed.

1) As a private citizen, your weapon is concealed until you need to use it. It isn't out in the open for some psycho to grab, unlike cops who wear them on their belts.

2) When you need to use it and the guy sees it, there should not be a whole lot of time at all between the time when you draw and start shooting.

I carried a S&W Model 5906 on duty for several years, it was what the city issued. I personally never trained to use the magazine disconnect as any type of safety or weapons retention device, I do know officers who did though.

I do have to ask you if you've ever been in a fight? I think anyone who has would realize why it's important for everyone who carries a firearm to learn weapons retention techniques. Are you going to draw down on anyone that breaks the 21 ft bubble of personal space that you keep around yourself? :what:

I think everyone should realize that the firearm is just a tool in your defensive toolbox. It's not the end all for all situations and you can get into things hand to hand while carrying concealed. Naturally you will try to avoid that but it can happen. You need to have a plan to retain your weapon or render it inoperable so it can't be used against you in a snatch. This goes for everyone who carries a firearm, not just police officers who open carry. Magazine disconnects and on safe carry on semi autos like Aikibiker mentioned are but a couple of ways to do that.

How exactly will a magazine disconnect get you killed? I know that you can't fire it with just the one up the spout and the mag out, but what other dangers are there? I'm not saying that isn't a very remote possibility, but I think it's something that can be dealt with with the proper training. Are you afraid you'll knock the mag catch on your draw or while carrying it? If so, I'd say you have a training and maybe an equipment problem with the holster you selected.

Jeff
 
What Mr. White is saying is "Oops, he has my gun, now what do I do?" is the wrong time to make plans B,C,D, etc. It is hard to determine when it is appropriate to use lethal force, and the consequences for misuse are terrible, because you cannot take back bullets that you have fired. I have practiced with a lot of hostage targets, but the bad guy and the hostage were always stationary, and if I hit the hostage I could fix it with a piece of tape.

Events rarely occur as we would like, and we must prepare ourselves for the ones we really don't like just as much as the straightforward, easily solved ones. Better to think about it now, safe, and with plenty of time for contemplation, than later with your heart pounding, blood roaring in your ears, and your vision shrinking to a little circle. :)
 
For a private citizen, I still consider them junk that will get you killed.

1) As a private citizen, your weapon is concealed until you need to use it. It isn't out in the open for some psycho to grab, unlike cops who wear them on their belts.

The article doesn't state it, but I'd guess the officer had the gun in his hand when he confronted Blackwell. Wouldn't you? And unless you shot him without warning (which may be justified, based on the situation), you would be subject to the same disarm attempts the officer faced.

And if you attempt to restrain him without drawing your handgun, he would still be liable to feel it in the struggle. And attempt to take it. Since private citizens don't use level three retention holsters while carrying concealed, he's got a better chance to take it from you than from a cop in the same situation.

I don't see any downside to having a magazine disconnect.
 
I think you're missing the most important lesson of this story. My purpose in posting this story was to bring the point home that no weapon is always 100% effective. A real 12 gauge loaded with real slugs or buckshot may not have instantly solved the problem.


Well, I understand that no weapon is always 100% effective, but according to the tables I found with a quick search, a 12 ga. shotgun slug is about 98% effective. http://www.powernet.net/~eich1/sp.html

That is as close to 100% as you are going to get in a weapon that can be carried and employed by one man.


Ok Drjones, you're the responding officer here. According to the newspaper article, Blackwell was beating up a woman when the first officer arrived. Now let me get this clear, from your post I'm assuming you would have got out of the car with your 870 in hand, done a select slug drill, and vaporized Blackwell's heart with one well aimed shot?

Well, he shot his 9 year old daughter in the chest with a 12er before the cops arrived. I'm pretty sure the cops would have been aware of "shots fired" reports, and as such, should have probably handled the situation differently.


What about Trina Hicks? All I can say is that you're a better man then I am with a shotgun if you can confidently say you can make that shot, I found Louis Awerbuck's mover very difficult and it dosen't move nearly as fast and unpredicatably as a real fight. The only sure way to instantly stop that attack would have been a cental nervous system shot, the brain stem or occular nerves. A pretty small target. The heart is a somewhat bigger target but it isn't located in the exact same place on everyone you might meet and it's hard to destroy. An LAPD officer survived a direct hit to her heart with a .357 magnum a few years back. She managed to remain conscious for a long time and even clear her weapon. FBI agent Jerry Dove took out Matix's aorta with a 115 gr 9mm silver tip in the opening seconds of the infamous Miami shootout and he managed to stay on his feet and kill additional agents. But the wound was fatal, just not instantly so. Read the citations for some MOH winners. You'll get some idea of the amount of punishment the human body can take and still function.


You aren't seriously comparing a 12 ga. slug with a .357, are you? :scrutiny: :confused:

I'm not talking about taking out an aorta or a bullet in the heart; I'm talking about a 12 ga. slug which leaves a wound channel of over 1" in diameter. http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/12 Gauge Foster Slug.jpg
 
Drjones said;
Well, I understand that no weapon is always 100% effective, but according to the tables I found with a quick search, a 12 ga. shotgun slug is about 98% effective. http://www.powernet.net/~eich1/sp.html

So you're going to make all of your weapons and ammunition slections based on the Marshall/Sanow data? You are aware that it's not considered serious science in the wound ballisitc community?

In an earlier post I said;
Ok Drjones, you're the responding officer here. According to the newspaper article, Blackwell was beating up a woman when the first officer arrived. Now let me get this clear, from your post I'm assuming you would have got out of the car with your 870 in hand, done a select slug drill, and vaporized Blackwell's heart with one well aimed shot?:scrutiny:

And you replied;
Well, he shot his 9 year old daughter in the chest with a 12er before the cops arrived. I'm pretty sure the cops would have been aware of "shots fired" reports, and as such, should have probably handled the situation differently.

I don't know how the call was dispatched and neither do you. The article doesn't mention it. I know that where I work a call like that could have been dispatched as anything from unknown trouble, to a domestic disturbance to shots fired. What about where you work? It must be great to always know exactly what's happening when you roll up on the scene. Can you tell me how your telecommunicators are trained? It sure should be the standard for TCs throughout the nation.

The article does tell us this; An hour later, neighbors heard an explosion from inside Blackwell's home. Police said he shot his 9-year-old stepdaughter in the chest with a 12-gauge shotgun, then ran outside and rushed bare-handed toward three teenage girls standing in a driveway several doors down.

Tell you what, until we know what the first responding officer knew about what was happening that evening on Spring Garden Drive, we'll refrain from criticizing how he deployed. We do know that the article states that Blackwell ran bare handed from the house. One might surmize that he left the shotgun he shot his daughter with in the house.

The article tells us that the rookie officer who was first on the scene interrupted the assault on Trina Hicks. So if I read your post right, if you were the first responding officer, you would have left the car with your shotgun, loaded a slug and vaporized Blackwell's heart with the 98% effective 12 gauge slug you loaded.

Now, I'm not a physician but I've been told that the human heart is about the size of a fist. According to the article, Ernest Blackwell is 6'3" and 235. If you look at most people that size we can say he probably had a 46-50" chest depending on how often he worked out and what type of workouts he did. He was beating Trina Hicks when the officer arrived. We don't know if the officer was behind Blackwell, in front of him or at an angle to him. We don't know if Trina Hicks was between them. But we can assume from your post, that you'd have calmly shot Blackwell in the heart. The amazing one inch wound track from your 98% effective 12 gauge slug would have vaporized his heart and he'd have been dead right there.

Just a few questions. Is your 12 gauge slug going to have enough penetration to reach the heart if you have to shoot through his forearm or bicep first? Is it powerful enough to break large bones without being deflected off it's path to Blackwell's heart? Would you have sacrificed Trina Hicks' life to keep Blackwell from causing more mayhem in the neighborhood?
Are you that familiar with human anatomy that you can aim directly for the heart from any angle?

You aren't seriously comparing a 12 ga. slug with a .357, are you?
:uhoh: :confused:

No, Im saying that the choice of weapon probably wouldn't have made much difference in that situation. I'm not sure that the officer was initially confronted with a shooting situation. Given the size disparity between Blackwell and the officer, it may have turned into one when Blackwell attacked the officer, but the distance between them may have made that impractical.

Jeff
 
Update

The autopsy report showed Blackwell only had marijuana in his system.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...eds+little+light+on+football+player's+rampage
Autopsy sheds little light on football player's rampage
By Heather Ratcliffe
Of the Post-Dispatch
02/10/2005

Former Mizzou
football star
Results don't explain
Blackwell's unnatural
strength that day

Autopsy results shed little light on why one-time Mizzou football star Ernest Blackwell snapped Aug. 11, wounding his stepdaughter with a shotgun and attacking north St. Louis County neighbors with such rage it took about dozen police officers to stop him.

When Blackwell, 29, died that day in an ambulance, marijuana was the only illicit drug in his blood, according to the final police and autopsy reports released Wednesday. Some officials had expected to find something more potent.

His sudden death, ruled as natural causes by the St. Louis County medical examiner, was associated with "agitated delirium," the report says. The condition causes a person's heart to stop after extreme mental and physiological excitement, police explained.

Investigators said the autopsy does not explain why Taser shocks, pepper spray and blows from batons had no apparent effect on Blackwell's almost superhuman strength.

"The suspect seemed to grow stronger as the fight continued," County Police Detective Mark Grobelny concluded in his report.

In the report, more than a dozen witnesses described the scene as police attempted to arrest Blackwell minutes after he shot his 9-year-old stepdaughter.

"I can't believe the officers didn't shoot him," one neighbor told investigators. "This guy was out of control and would not comply with any of their orders."

Another neighbor said Blackwell "looked like he was a robot, as if he was whacked out."

The commotion began about 7 p.m. in the Glasgow Village neighborhood with what many described as an "explosion." Family members told police that Blackwell shot Adrienne Thompson in the chest with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Then Blackwell ran bare-handed out of his home, in the 10000 block of Spring Garden, and charged at some children playing several houses down. Most escaped, but Blackwell caught Ashley Davis, 14, and beat her in the face with his fists while yelling "Touchdown!" with each blow, police said.

Ashley's stepmother, Trina Hicks, came outside when she heard screaming. Blackwell chased Hicks and her son into the house. Then he broke down their dead-bolted front door.

He attacked Hicks in a bedroom, beating her in the face all the while asking for God's forgiveness.

Children outside flagged down county Officer Allen Williams, who was in the area on another call. Williams ran into Hicks' home, where Blackwell tackled the officer before he could even say a word, according to the report.

Williams dislocated his shoulder in the initial attack. As Blackwell tried to pull the officer's pistol from its holster, Williams kept one hand on the gun and another on his radio, calling for help.

Blackwell had his hand around the officer's neck, choking him, when Officer Tim Albano arrived and pushed Blackwell off. Both officers used batons and fists to hit Blackwell on the shoulder, knees, legs and head.

In all, nearly a dozen county, Jennings and Riverview officers fought with Blackwell, using electric Taser guns with no effect. One said Blackwell laughed at their inability to control him.

"The world's coming to an end, and we're all going to die," Blackwell told Williams. "I'm going to let you kill me." Later, Blackwell shouted, "You're going to have to put me on the cross!" and "I'm the devil, 666!"

The struggle spilled into the front yard and street, where a crowd had gathered.

Once an officer tripped the 6-foot-3-inch, 235-pound Blackwell, several others held him down while paramedics injected two shots of a sedative, according to the report. By the time the ambulance arrived at Christian Hospital Northeast, Blackwell was dead.

Several officers were injured, including Williams, who was off duty for several months. Ashley and her stepmother have recovered.

Officers Williams, Albano and James Morgan will receive awards next week from the department commending their performance.

The Kansas City Star reported late last year that Blackwell was disappointed at failing in an effort to get the St. Louis Rams to sign him as a player. He had been a seventh round NFL draft pick for the Kansas City Chiefs in 1998. He left training camp unexpectedly that year, was allowed to return but got cut before the season began.

Reporter Heather Ratcliffe:
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 314-863-2821

Perhpas agitated delerium might explain some other deaths of very violent suspects?

Jeff
 
Last edited:
"The suspect seemed to grow stronger as the fight continued,"

In my experience that only happens with gamma radiation exposure. Have they checked for a subterranean lab?

On a more serious note, we had a psych ward releasee go on a rampage killing "demons" with a butcher knife downtown here years ago. He took two 12 guage rounds ( I think buck) in the chest from a passing citizen and was still up when the police arrived and finally took him down.

There's a point where Napolean's dictum works for individuals as well as groups.
 
"I'm the devil, 666!"
Geez - I don't believe in that kind of stuff anymore - but maybe he was RIGHT :what:


I did have an experience with a person a couple years ago, that when they looked at me I felt that I was no longer looking a human being but rather at some kind of animal or ??? Several other people independently asked me if I had ever seen that look in that same persons face, so it wasn't just my imagination.
 
So, with that Marshall & Sanow 98% number, how does that work...if I point the shotgun in the guys general direction and pull the trigger is there a 98% chance he'll go down? Or do i actually have to hit him...what if I just graze him, do I still get the 98%? How about if I only hit him in the toe, or the hand...98%? Who rolls this 100-sided die, anyway?

The sooner M&S get permanently locked in the vault of 'I can't believe we actually took that garbage seriously' the better we'll all be.

- Gabe

PS: That's not to say that a slug-loaded 12ga isn't the choice item for this encounter, it obviously is. But life doesn't always offer you an 870 when you need one. And nothing is for sure.
 
Another psycho who wanting his 15 minutes of fame - hoping to end it in suicide by cop.

Pathetic wretch & coward to boot, glad your history.

12-34hom
 
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