NRA: Obama's 10 point plan - mailing

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camslam,

The facts list on the nraila website is more poignant and more accurate. If they had taken the 10 worst facts and put them on a card, I would pass out that card. As it is right now, the 10-points that the nraila produced would damage my credibility, not bolster it. I'd rather have a conversation with someone and pass out the nraila link to back up what I'm saying.

-Jake
 
The fact is, regardless of his past positions, who knows what he will and will not try to get enacted if he's president? Lots of the presidents have moved quite a bit towards the center when they are elected. Lots of them change their positions somewhat, and never take any actions on prior positions.
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So, the klinton AWB was moving to the center?
 
Past performance is one of the better ways of gaging how politicians will act in the future since they tend to be rather "loose" with the truth.
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Very true…you also might want to download/save/pass around the Fact Sheet PDF at http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/2008Obamafactsht.pdf.
It’s the same thing as on the aforementioned website, but just handier to save/have/forward/print and pass out. It’s full of all the footnotes/links as the web page has.

Don’t forget…he taught Constitutional Law and stated he thought the DC gun ban was constitutional (scary to think what else he was teaching his students)!
Sounds like he was:
1. A poor professor (if he can’t understand the 2nd Amendment as the Supreme Court)
OR
2. He has an agenda!

‘Course, I guess it coulda been both!
 
Past performance is one of the better ways of gaging how politicians will act in the future since they tend to be rather "loose" with the truth.
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Hence, the opportunity for Obama, Bush, and Clinton to come out of nowhere are into the White House: they have no records to hold against them.

Barack Obama's biggest selling-point on his record? He voted against the Iraq war, which is a moot point, since we're already there.
 
Are those 10-points actually from Obama or just predictions?
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That is what I would like to know. I think if he really said that word-for-word, it would be political suicide. I am betting that this was conjured up by the good folks at the NRA.

However, I have no doubt that he would gladly do it... if he could.
 
Sadly Obama is known for his "communist" like speeches, which can convince idiots over time that his personal agenda is corect.
 
I hope you guys aren't thinking that I made the image I posted. That image is straight from the NRA-ILA site.

How many of you have received the 10-point plan foldable cards in the mail now?
 
1. Does not support any concept of castle doctrine

2. Obama is opposed to CCW. Look it up. He has that he feels that it puts innoccent people at risk.

3. In 1996, however, Obama said in a questionnaire that he "supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns"

4. don't know about 4
5. Voted to ban any cartrige that would pentrate light body armor, which is most centerfire ammo.
6. Obama was a state senator in Illinois, where he supported increasing federal excise taxes on guns and ammunition by 500 percent
8. He stated that he wishes to make the Clinton AWB to be reinstated and to be made forever.
9 and 10 i don't know about personally.
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adding to the above
1 - ban use of firearms for home defense

Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership
Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 20087

Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.
David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08.

Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.
Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

2 pass federal laws eliminating CCW

“Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008,

"Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04.

#2 ban on the (private) manufacture, sale, and possession of handguns.

Obama is for a total handgun ban
Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 20087

4 close down 90% of gun shops in America

this is regarding a law to close all gunshops within 5 miles, yes 5 miles of a school or PARK!

“Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999.

5 ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting

this refers to him backing a Ted Kennedy bill that would outlaw any ammo that can possibly be found in a handgun and can penetrate a bullet proof vest. Problems are no definition of vest, a company could market a wet paper bag as a ballistic vest, anything that busts it is illegal. Also, the way it is worded, any cartridge in the TC Contender, Encore, or in any rifle a Brady Supporter takes a hacksaw to and creates a handgun is illegal, so everything.

When it was pointed out that this law could be expanded to cover any hunting cartridge by cutting down a hunting rifle into a handgun, Kennedy started talking about some cops shot at with a 30-30 rifle, saying stuff about it being so powerful and we don't need powerful guns like that.

United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 2, 2005.

There I did 5, original poster, put your money where your mouth is and do the other 5
 
The facts list on the nraila website is more poignant and more accurate. If they had taken the 10 worst facts and put them on a card, I would pass out that card. As it is right now, the 10-points that the nraila produced would damage my credibility, not bolster it. I'd rather have a conversation with someone and pass out the nraila link to back up what I'm saying.
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I agree, plenty of room to cite votes and articles in very small print on those cards.

What I am doing is copying down the newspaper and article date, as well as vote names and dates, and have that on MY copy, I hand out the others, and when they start questioning the validity, I break out my copy and say 'well, look here if you don't believe me, and here and here and here' which seems to sway bystanders if not the original asker
 
I hope you guys aren't thinking that I made the image I posted. That image is straight from the NRA-ILA site.
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There does seem to be some (intentional?) confusion, and some folks seem to be guilty of (I believe the Brits call it) “being too clever by half” (which also aptly describes darn near all politicians).

Based on the 10 points I read, I’m familiar with ‘bout 9 of ‘em, and don’t doubt the 10th for a minute.
I’m basing this on his past history and voting record-sounds like a lot of folks just want to keep throwing out the “show me” mantra (NRA haters?). The site/Fact Sheet are full of footnotes with links if anyone’s truly interested in doing the research.

‘Course, it’s always easier to just sit back and say, “show me”!
 
YouTube videos no longer available?

Since I seem to be hearing a lot of "show me" folks in here, I thought I'd watch the (YouTube) videos at the NRA site, but ALL of 'em give the "We're sorry, this video is no longer available" message.

I'd like to know the story behind that?
Mebbe I'm being a bit too conspiratorial (I'll do some searching on YouTube later), but isn't it rather odd that none of 'em are available?

Edit: I see the videos at the NRA site are now working!
 
For you folks saying, "He couldn't get all 10 of those passed. There's no way." ANY ONE OF THOSE being passed would be detrimental to this country, and our free way of life. Not to mention, after getting one passed, it's a lot easier to get a second, and so on.
 
That is what I would like to know. I think if he really said that word-for-word, it would be political suicide. I am betting that this was conjured up by the good folks at the NRA.
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Dude, did you read the thread and the links herein? There is factual support for each one of those statements right here, supported by detailed cites:

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/2008Obamafactsht.pdf

Yes, they are simplified and taken to the logical extreme, but it's quite clear that they're true, and what he would do if he had his way:

On the Second Amendment,
Don’t Believe Obama!

The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun
owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama
stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries,
Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or
unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.
But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long
standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second
Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to
what he has said and done during his entire political career.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to
bankrupt the firearms industry.1
FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited
Clinton Gun Ban.2
FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and
sport shooting.3
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2
FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4
FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who
use firearms in self-defense.5
FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6
FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second
Amendment rights in the Heller case.
FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7
FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the
leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8
FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park,
which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9
FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records
searches on them.10
FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification
card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the
military.11
FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2
FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on
gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm
dealers and manufacturers.14
FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.9
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money
is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and
a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9
1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 2, 2005.
(http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219)
2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this
survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 20087.
(http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)
3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 2, 2005.
(http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217)
4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political
Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html)
5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.
6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007.
(http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php)
7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama
Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html)
8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.
9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999.
(http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)
10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.
11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.
12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007.
(http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html)
13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008,
(http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html)
14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .”
(http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.)
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There may be some miscommunication here. It’s not that I don’t believe the predictions on the card. It’s just that the raw facts are enough and are actually more effective. Further, I’m not even giving the card much thought because I prefer to hear the raw facts, which are really not that difficult to understand. There’s no need for any translation or trickery.
 
Premium, your sarcasm is great, thanks.

For those who don't have a communication problem, the cards are not for handing out to people who are clearly pro-rights. The cards are for thoughtful individuals who may be on the fence with respect to gun rights. They'll quickly dismiss propaganda and people that look suspect. This card looks suspect. Don't insult their intelligence.

It's important to note that the 10-points on the card are not from Obama. The facts listed on the nraila website are from Obama. That's a huge difference if you're talking to anybody worthy of your time.

Print this on cards...

"www.nraila.org/obama"

If they're not interested in visiting the site after your conversation, you're wasting your time talking to the person anyway because they're not listening. Further, the information at that link stands on its own without a conversation.
 
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rugerlvr said:
You mean hyped up?
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Obama supported the DC ban. He voted for Ted Kennedy's .30-30 ban. He refused to sign the bipartisan amicus brief supporting Heller. He sided with those that say we have no right to self preservation and promised to elect Supreme Court justices that feel the same. He voted against letting people who have threats against their life be exempt from a concealed carry ban. He penned a law that would have banned every gun shop in every major city in the US if applied nation wide. How much more extreme can you get?

Banning concealed carry, even for people whose lives are in imminent danger, can't be hyped anymore than what it is. Supporting DC's total handgun ban can't be hyped up anymore than what it is. A complete no-tolerance ban is a complete no-tolerance ban. When people start debating this simple fact I start to wonder if we have covert Obama/Brady Campaign supporters on this forum.
 
Some folks just like to argue I guess?

If you try to print everything on the card that's in the PDF document...how many folks would (or could) read print that fine?
AFA the cards points not coming (directly) from Obama...the simplified versions on the card are based on his record, so I don't know how you can say that's not an accurate portrayal of his positions? I think of the card as the “CliffsNotes” version of his record.
I’m still not getting the “propaganda” complaint?

‘Course, to keep it simple you could just hand out the card AND have a few printed copies of the PDF document on hand also-nothing says you can’t give ‘em both!
If they want the simple version, it’s on the card.
If they want more proof, it’s on the PDF document (with plenty of footnotes/links).

Like some in here, we’ll see if they really want to verify or if they just want to argue (and hate the NRA)?
 
I'm not debating that Obama is an anti. I'm debating whether or not the NRA chooses language meant to enflame. Which they do. They're as guilty of hyperbole, and for a lack of a better word, propagandizing, as the antis.

I'm most definitely not a covert Brady supporter, however I do support truth in advertising, and treating people like intelligent adults instead of "simplifying and taking to the logical extreme" to try to play to baser emotions.
 
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