rbernie
Contributing Member
Pretty much. Some folks are so pissed at Dubya and the RINOS that they'd believe ANYTHING that sounds like an option.
But facts is facts, and votes *are* generally recorded.
NRA: Obama's 10 point plan - mailing
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But facts is facts, and votes *are* generally recorded.
wacki
Member
I'll disagree with this. Nothing compares with what the AHSA does.
Some better descriptions of the NRA:
Snarky, impertinent, crotchety....
The NRA needs to be more 'academic' in their documentation style. It's kind of sad when the best pro gun pamphlet out there is done basically by one man ran grass roots operation at www.gunfacts.info/.
jakemccoy
Member
Folks, we have the guns on our side. We should go out of our way to be calm, honest and without hyperbole.
Yeah, the link is buried under the propaganda, a piss poor introduction to the nraila website. :banghead:
The following is really not a hard concept to understand: the 10-points on the card are NOT from Obama; the facts on the website are from Obama.
The card is propaganda because the card makes it look like the 10-points are from Obama. Handing out the card undermines your credibility with the very people you're trying to convince. On the other hand, relaying the raw facts bolsters your credibility. Thus, talk about the raw facts.
It concerns me that this basic concept is lost in this thread. I'm concerned about the pro-rights crowd if a fair amount of people here think someone is anti-gun for having a disagreement with the nature of the card.
.cheese said:
Yeah, the link is buried under the propaganda, a piss poor introduction to the nraila website. :banghead:
The following is really not a hard concept to understand: the 10-points on the card are NOT from Obama; the facts on the website are from Obama.
The card is propaganda because the card makes it look like the 10-points are from Obama. Handing out the card undermines your credibility with the very people you're trying to convince. On the other hand, relaying the raw facts bolsters your credibility. Thus, talk about the raw facts.
It concerns me that this basic concept is lost in this thread. I'm concerned about the pro-rights crowd if a fair amount of people here think someone is anti-gun for having a disagreement with the nature of the card.
jfh
Member.
Are you guys done picking the nits off the nuts of gnats yet?
Each of you should re-read the entire post, in a day or two, with a set of fresh eyes.
A lot of the opinions here sound like the rationalizations of people caught up in Obama hysteria, and trying to justify the predicament they find themselves in.
If nothing more, look at the stated agenda of the party for which Obama has sought the nomination.
Jim H.
Each of you should re-read the entire post, in a day or two, with a set of fresh eyes.
A lot of the opinions here sound like the rationalizations of people caught up in Obama hysteria, and trying to justify the predicament they find themselves in.
If nothing more, look at the stated agenda of the party for which Obama has sought the nomination.
Jim H.
OK, flame suit on.
This sounds like fear mongering techniques in an election year. McCain's got my vote and I have made up my mind to join the NRA. I wouldn't put past Obama to make true on all points, but we still have congress that is fairly split and a relatively solid, conservative court.
Fire away guys.
This sounds like fear mongering techniques in an election year. McCain's got my vote and I have made up my mind to join the NRA. I wouldn't put past Obama to make true on all points, but we still have congress that is fairly split and a relatively solid, conservative court.
Fire away guys.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
I can't vote for either of them, though for different reasons. And I believe that McCain's esentially for sale on the gun issue if he thinks it'll get him more power (considering his voting record shows that's all he really cares about look up McCain-Feingold). That being said, Obama hates guns and gun owners. Everything he's done, everything he has said about the issue tells us that. His voting record tells us that. And because of the powers of the president (which are even greater after the ignorance of Bush's "unitary executive" theory) he could make our lives dificult. We live in "interesting times" in the Chinese sense of the word.
wacki
Member
gallo said:
This election is supposed to be a landslide for dems in both the house and senate. http://www.electoral-vote.com/
And you claim "solid conservative court"?!??!?!??! Are you serious? Heller was 5-4. What is up with people tonight?
doc2rn
Member
I heard Obama say personally he sided with the SC that the 2nd was a personal right. He said he objected to the repeal of the ban but was glad they left reasonable restriction open.
He has always understood you can not ban firearms. He thinks we should all be restricted to bolt action and revolvers though. Some here actually agree with this. I have both types but I shoot bolt action more and prefer a FNP-9 sidearm.
IIRC this was put out by McCains campaign committee.
He has always understood you can not ban firearms. He thinks we should all be restricted to bolt action and revolvers though. Some here actually agree with this. I have both types but I shoot bolt action more and prefer a FNP-9 sidearm.
IIRC this was put out by McCains campaign committee.
That’s what he says now-why didn’t he believe the DC ban was unconstitutional before the Supreme Court ruling? Heck, if more than 70% of the people thought the 2nd meant individuals instead of states, militias, etc (from many polls I saw), you’d think someone that once taught constitutional law could interpret the 2nd!?
I saw him weasel around with some of his answers after the ruling, and think one TV commentator put it best. After seeing an interview with him he stated apparently Obama agreed with it in principal-just not it’s implementation.
‘Course, immediately after the interview he rescued a child and stopped time with his mind!
wacki
Member
I'm compiling evidence for the NRA's 10 points. I just finished 1 out of 10. Please review and comment. Constructive criticism is more than welcome.
http://obamagun.blogspot.com/2008/08/ban-rifle-ammunition-commonly-used-for.html
Anyone but Obama 08!
http://obamagun.blogspot.com/2008/08/ban-rifle-ammunition-commonly-used-for.html
Anyone but Obama 08!
I have fewer worries than some around here, but he will appoint some left-of-center judges to the SCOTUS. That right there is a worry.
Depending on the state of the Congress, he will rubber stamp national gun-control measures. That's a worry.
I tend not to think things are going to be as dire as some folks on the board do, but I don't begrudge them their feelings, because I completely understand where they're coming from.
Personally, I see very little difference between McCain and Obama except on the "wedge" issues. And personally, I'm completely split on the wedge issues. So really, I don't have a candidate I can get behind.
wacki
Member
Did you not read the link I posted?
jfh
Member.
There is the covert Obama campaign here--and this thread is proof of it. How many of you, secure in your dissatisfaction with the current Administration, are now willing to be unwitting tools?
This board's topics is for rational discussion of firearms topics--all, save for "political" discussions. Nonetheless, some sort of intellectual honesty also has to be practiced.
I suggest that such hair-splitting about "propaganda" and style issues for the NRA-ILA pdf is largely irrelevant.
Has anyone else read "Hitler's Willing Executioners"? Topical a few years ago, it looked hard at the nature of the German people. That people--such as the local people at Munthausen--were dispirited at the time of Hitler's rise to power, and they went on to willingly serve the Nazi regime.
At some point in one's life, one has to quit rationalizing and intellectualizing and come to grips with the Nature of the Beast.
I suggest many of you thoughtful nit-pickers, as well as you Pro-Gun Democrats, consider reading that book.
Jim H.
This board's topics is for rational discussion of firearms topics--all, save for "political" discussions. Nonetheless, some sort of intellectual honesty also has to be practiced.
I suggest that such hair-splitting about "propaganda" and style issues for the NRA-ILA pdf is largely irrelevant.
Has anyone else read "Hitler's Willing Executioners"? Topical a few years ago, it looked hard at the nature of the German people. That people--such as the local people at Munthausen--were dispirited at the time of Hitler's rise to power, and they went on to willingly serve the Nazi regime.
At some point in one's life, one has to quit rationalizing and intellectualizing and come to grips with the Nature of the Beast.
I suggest many of you thoughtful nit-pickers, as well as you Pro-Gun Democrats, consider reading that book.
Jim H.
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Stop trying to cloud the issue with facts...some folks' minds are made up!
Well, that and some are intent on exercising their right to be too clever by half.
By the way…left your blog page open and will check out more of it this evening-looks good so far.
Got this from another thread in here, but this video is a nice walk down memory lane AFA gun control. I particularly enjoy the quotes from historic figures towards the end of the video-it shows the wisdom of many of those historic figures, and that they understood human nature.
Apparently some of us are not learning from history’s mistakes, and you know what that means!
Why Do They Want Our Guns?
Drgong
Member
Have you looked at his voting record? Just curious...
XDKingslayer
member
Is the card fear mongering? Of course it is.
But the other side of that coin is that nothing Obama (or McCain) says at this point in time can be trusted either because it's nothing more than election rhetoric.
Look at the voting record. That's about the most accurate thing you can look at. Everything from just about last year until now is simply hollow words of someone trying to get elected.
But the other side of that coin is that nothing Obama (or McCain) says at this point in time can be trusted either because it's nothing more than election rhetoric.
Look at the voting record. That's about the most accurate thing you can look at. Everything from just about last year until now is simply hollow words of someone trying to get elected.
The way I see it, for the preservation of what 2nd Amendment rights we have left, ANY nonviolent method dedicated to keeping that Nouveau Socialist out of office is legitimate. Smearing, demonstrations, propaganda, slander and libel, whatever.
NEVER FIGHT FAIR!
NEVER FIGHT FAIR!
Titan6
member
I don't understand. Is someone trying to make the case that Obama is in favor of loosening gun control or even neutral to the issue?
That is in conflict with any reality I know of.
That is in conflict with any reality I know of.
wacki
Member
Here's McCains record on gun control:
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/john_mccain.htm#Gun_Control
# Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
# Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
# Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
# Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007)
# Allow firearms in National Parks. (Feb 2008)
He's not perfect, but compared to Obama McCain is a dream come true. Can you please find me one single AWB that McCain voted for? Or are you just going to use that "McBush" word over and over?
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/john_mccain.htm#Gun_Control
# Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban. (Aug 1999)
# Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
# Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
# Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007)
# Allow firearms in National Parks. (Feb 2008)
He's not perfect, but compared to Obama McCain is a dream come true. Can you please find me one single AWB that McCain voted for? Or are you just going to use that "McBush" word over and over?
Obama is an astute politician. He also likes to take the path of least resistance and greater rewards, i.e. Bush bashing. He'll vest his time and energy in the battles he can win and let sleeping dogs lie. He has run his campaign on the promise of change and the promise of pulling out of Iraq. That should keep him too busy to f around with the 2nd amendment. Will he appoint liberal scouts? Of course, a Republican would do the opposite. Nothing new. Keep buying guns and ammo. In this country the most powerful vote is the one you cast with your wallet.
First off, let me state I'm voting for Bob Barr. I'm in Illinois so my vote is a waste anyway, and I want to send a message to the Republican Party that I am really PO'd at them. I've voted Republican my whole adult life because of 2nd Amendment issues (outside of 2004).
Obama's position on the DC Gun Ban was exactly the same as Bush's position, as argued by the Solicitor General. Bush also supported the AWB. And anybody who really thinks that Mayor Nagin was responsible for troops going around with cops to confiscate guns in NOLA, I've got a bridge to sell you.
I think Bush has just about buried our country, and I think he may have destroyed the Republican Party. I'm not joking about that, folks. I could vote for Kerry because he was a war hero, no matter what lies the Swift Boat people spread. I can not vote for Barack Hussein Obama, however. Not on my worst day. I can not support McCain because he has backed GW to the hilt, and has said he will continue his policies. I can not aid and abet the shredding of our Constitution. I signed up during Vietnam, and I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I can't see a bigger threat to that Constitution than GW and his lapdog, McCain. That is just the way I see it.
You can flame me all you want, both these guys are not worth the time of day, and I won't vote for either of them.
The Supremes that are most likely to retire or die are the Liberals, I am willing to take that risk that the Conservative Justices can last out the fallout from Heller so as to get the 2nd Amendment back to meaning what it should.
Okay, Rant Off.
Obama's position on the DC Gun Ban was exactly the same as Bush's position, as argued by the Solicitor General. Bush also supported the AWB. And anybody who really thinks that Mayor Nagin was responsible for troops going around with cops to confiscate guns in NOLA, I've got a bridge to sell you.
I think Bush has just about buried our country, and I think he may have destroyed the Republican Party. I'm not joking about that, folks. I could vote for Kerry because he was a war hero, no matter what lies the Swift Boat people spread. I can not vote for Barack Hussein Obama, however. Not on my worst day. I can not support McCain because he has backed GW to the hilt, and has said he will continue his policies. I can not aid and abet the shredding of our Constitution. I signed up during Vietnam, and I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I can't see a bigger threat to that Constitution than GW and his lapdog, McCain. That is just the way I see it.
You can flame me all you want, both these guys are not worth the time of day, and I won't vote for either of them.
The Supremes that are most likely to retire or die are the Liberals, I am willing to take that risk that the Conservative Justices can last out the fallout from Heller so as to get the 2nd Amendment back to meaning what it should.
Okay, Rant Off.
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