nuclear strike against Iran?

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They were somewhat rational actors thirty years ago. I'm not so certain that the leadership now is rational.

As for their goals?

They may just be jockeying for the new leadership role in the Arab League. But I certainly don't discount their threats.

You mean their threats to Israel? That's pretty obviously a part of their expansion strategy...it gives them an excuse to dominate Syria and Lebanon. It's also a way to unify Shia elements in the Arab governments (who are also threatened by Iran.)

But what threat is there to the United States? They've said they will attack the US if we interfere with their government or attack them first. Who wouldn't say the same, in their shoes?

This is clearly a bad situation, and Iran is hostile. What I'm saying is that this is not so far out of left field that the only answer is to Nuke Iran, and further, that nuking Iran will be worse for all parties involved (Arabs, Israelis, the US, Russia, and China) than in being more conservative in dealing with the problem.
 
I find it odd that you think it's "surreal" to placate terrorists, but at the same time think it's perfectly legitimate to nuke millions of people over a questionable threat to US interests. Why the moral outrage over funding terrorists, but the complete neutrality on killing millions of people?

The situation is analogous to killing in self-defense a crazed murderer reaching for a weapon vs giving weapons, dope, and other people's stuff to the same to keep him away for awhile.

WMD proliferation is something about which we need to draw a line in the sand (or the glass). Otherwise we are history (or radioactive slag).
 
When nutcases that hate us and our way of life try to get nukes, and when they seems okay with the idea of dying to kill us, it becomes a matter of self-defense and then we should pre-emptively strike before they strike us, especially since they are bent on getting them and no negotiation seems to work. That is not Globocop, that is self-defense.

Good thing we did that with the Soviet Union, China, and Cuba to take care
of those past threats....

Don't buy the "they're ok with dying to kill us" BS --not ONE so-called
Mujahideen who has recruited suicide bombers or their white collar pencil
neck financiers in Iran, Syria or wherver has EVER strapped a bomb on
themselves or one of their own family members. There's a lot we can
do without garrisoning yet another country.

You wanna stop terrorism and make the world safer? Hit the bad guys
who have the money and cut the orders. Hit the Gottis and Capones
and their well-organized criminal machines falls apart. Those of you who
don't have goldfish memories can recall having Bin Laden in our sites both in
the Sudan AND Afghanistan when Clinton was in office and the shot wasn't
taken.

Why are Americans more comfortable with allowing our own soldiers to
die daily (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2157116,00.html)
rather than taking out key enemy leaders?

Support among the US public for the war in Iraq has been sapped by the 2,396 American combat deaths since the invasion. The Pentagon hopes to limit deaths among American troops to “one KIA (killed in action) a day” — a figure that strategists believe will be politically sustainable. This month 68 US servicemen have died, more than double the number for last month.

Wow, let's sacrifice America's Best in some sort of sick equation for what's
"politcally sustainable"?! :barf: and :barf: and :barf: If you want to deal with Iran, how about we do what Reagan did with Mo Q in Libya? :cool:
 
Good thing we did that with the Soviet Union, China, and Cuba to take care of those past threats....

Come on now, that is a cheap shot. Having been brutally savaged by the Germans in WW2, I bet the Soviets wanted to live even more than Americans did. The entire philosophy of communism is "pro-life" and "let's help others throw off their chains", as opposed to "let's destroy the infidel and then live in heaven instead". Comparing religious fanatics with soviets is thin at best. Although there are a few similarities between communism and a religion, they are different in most important aspects.

Again, consider the Cuban missile crisis vs Iran. Kennedy underlined that missiles in Cuba were utterly unacceptable and the US willingness to go to war over it. Khruschev postured for a bit, then saw the navy intercepting the ships, then turned around when Kennedy promised not to invade. We should do the same - they forget about nukes, we forget about invading them. We get what we want and they save face. Problem solved well for both sides. But, the nutcases are NOT going for it!

Hit the bad guys who have the money and cut the orders. Hit the Gottis and Capones and their well-organized criminal machines falls apart.

I agree and have been arguing for that since 9/11.

Those of you who don't have goldfish memories can recall having Bin Laden in our sites both in the Sudan AND Afghanistan when Clinton was in office and the shot wasn't taken.

Oh, I remember only too well. Interestingly, if you believe certain anti-Bush sources, another opportunity presented itself later as well, but was not taken yet again. For such things, we should keep our corrupt globalist ruling class accountable.
 
Interestingly, if you believe certain anti-Bush sources, another opportunity presented itself later as well

I can only take Bush at his word and he has said that capturing BinL is
no longer a top objective in the War on Terror, aka the Long War.

Hmmm, yet removing Saddam from power apparently was one....:confused:

Some of the King's men should be along shortly to clear this up for me.
 
How fast do you think support for the war would collapse once video is aired of OBL carcass being processed? OBL is much more valuable alive to Bush than dead. I don't think USG would tell us if OBL was dead. Besides, I think Iraq is old news. We're in the process of demonizing the nutjob leader of Iran
 
I read that missles from North Korea were delivered to Iran yesterday.

Now they have a delivery system that can reach out as far as Europe. :what:

Their president is arrogant enough to attempt a launch. :scrutiny:

Somebody's gonna shoot back. :fire:
 
shootinstudent,
It had plenty to do with them being jewish and spread to the other 2 tribes in Medina right hastily.
All that shooting in the 20's and thirties wasn't riots.
I suggest that you do some more "studying"
Any resident of the middle east that you speak to here is automatically a spoiled source. Someone of substance or sponsored by someone of substance and significantly of a different opinion than average muslim Joe.

Spend some time on the ground talking with typical residents of the place not students and vacationers. You will probably change your tune.

Sam
 
It had plenty to do with them being jewish and spread to the other 2 tribes in Medina right hastily.
All that shooting in the 20's and thirties wasn't riots.

It had zero to do with them being Jewish. They were in a peace treaty with Muhammad's group before the war, and they were attacked for siding with the Pagan tribes in that war.

Yes, the shooting in the 20's and 30's was riots. The British controlled the area; there was no Arab army running the show in Palestine during that time.

Spend some time on the ground talking with typical residents of the place not students and vacationers. You will probably change your tune.

That may be, but students who live in those places are certainly a good source, and the facts do speak for themselves.

Iran's constitution, for example, even today recognizes Judaism, and Iranian Jews are treated as well as any other Iranians for the most part. The fact that you could offer no example of a war between jews and muslims in between the 7th century and the 20th century is ample testimony to the history, and the potential.
 
That may be, but students who live in those places are certainly a good source.

That is simply naive. The students you meet here have as much in common with the general population in their old countries as our ivy-leaguers have with South Central L.A. or Oakland. Once in a while, it is healthy to leave the ivory tower and meet the world.
 
The students you meet here have as much in common with the general population in their old countries as our ivy-leaguers have with South Central L.A. or Oakland. Once in a while, it is healthy to leave the ivory tower and meet the world.

Relating this to the subject at hand: do you think the Iranian leadership are a bunch of grassroots, live and sympathize with the people types?
 
If you want to get in the crosshairs of Bush and company just change the currency for oil from the U.S. dollar and you have just became a nuclear threat.

Which country(s) is more of a threat than Iran; China, N.Korea, or Russia? N.Korea has already fired 2 dummy missles that landed in Alaska.

China has already threatened to nuc. major U.S. cities.

Russia is selling or giving stratigic weapons to any takers.

No, we are fighting Israel's war. Israel has more nuclear weapons than all of the other Mid-Eastern countries.
 
click...click....BOOM

http://www.mehrnews.ir/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=318875

Chinese Ambassador to Tehran Lio G. Tan has said that the oil and gas deal between Iran and China has been thoroughly studied by experts and is ready to be signed.

The Chinese ambassador was clearly referring to an energy agreement between Tehran and Beijing which is worth over 100 billion dollars.

“No country can prevent the deal,” the ambassador told the Mehr News Agency correspondent in Tehran last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/04/23/ccliam23.xml

From Russia, you might say, with love. This weekend, Alexei Kudrin, Russia's finance minister, dropped a bombshell in Washington.

Attending the annual meetings of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, Kudrin caused his American hosts discomfort by openly questioning the dollar's pre-eminence as the world's "absolute" reserve currency.

The greenback's recent volatility and the yawning US trade deficit, "are definitely causing concern with regard to its reserve currency status," he said. "The international community can hardly be satisfied with this instability."
<snip>
It is worth noting that Tehran has ongoing plans to set up an oil trading exchange to compete with New York's NYMEX and with London's International Petroleum Exchange. In the light of Kudrin's comments, it is significant that the Iranians want to run their oil bourse in euros, not dollars.

Were the Iranians to establish a Middle-East based euro-only oil exchange, the dollar's unique petrocurrency status could unravel. That, in turn, would threaten its broader dominance - which, given America's groaning twin deficit, could seriously hurt the US economy.

http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_3678364

WASHINGTON - A powerful blast scheduled at the Nevada Test Site in June is designed to help war planners figure out the smallest nuclear weapon able to destroy underground targets. And it has caused a concern that it signals a renewed push toward tactical nuclear weapons.
 
I heard this a few years back. Was the original source "The Spotlight"?
The same newspaper that said Uzebekian troops were living underground
in an island off Detroit waiting to invade the US back in the 90s?
 
It seems to me that if we USE nuclear weapons on ANY scale we open up the possibility of someone using them on us, in a preemptive manner, maybe the reconsituted Russia ?

Jeremiah 50 - 51
 
The situation is analogous to killing in self-defense a crazed murderer reaching for a weapon vs giving weapons, dope, and other people's stuff to the same to keep him away for awhile.

No, nuking Iran is NOT analogous to killing a crazed murderer in self defense. It IS analogous to going to the house of someone you REALLY don't like or get along with, and blowing it up, killing the guy you don't like, his wife, his parents, grandparents, children, nieces and nephews. All because you think he MIGHT be out to get you someday. Hmmm... sounds like the act of a terrorist, or a paranoid schizophrenic.:barf: :barf: :barf:
 
Regarding the upcoming Iranian oil bourse:

The Inevitable Collapse of the Greenback

“The ultimate financial impact of trading oil in Euros rather than dollars is a complex one, but according to many experts, such a move could lead to a collapse in value for the American currency, potentially putting the U.S. economy in its greatest crisis since the depression era of the 1930s.” “Petro-euro: a reality or distant nightmare for the US?” AlJazeera.com <http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_id=11145>

By Mike Whitney

05/03/06 "ICH <http://informationclearinghouse.info/> " -- -- Iran fired the first shot in a battle that will ultimately change the global economic system. Mehr News Agency announced that the long-anticipated Iran Oil Bourse <http://www.mehrnews.ir/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=319363> (OIB) will open sometime next week on Kish Island competing head-on with the US dollar. Currently, all oil transactions are denominated exclusively in greenbacks (via the London and New York oil exchanges) giving the US a virtual monopoly on the oil trade and maintaining the dollar’s position as the world’s reserve currency. This privilege has allowed the US to generate massive deficits as well as a national debt of $8.4 trillion without fear of economic collapse but, the “time’s they are a-changin’”. If Iran proceeds with its plan, the central banks around the world will convert some of their reserves into euros sending billions of dollars back to the America. This will result in either recession or depression.

The notion that the bourse poses a serious threat to the US economy has been widely dismissed as a left-wing, internet-conspiracy theory. In fact, there is nothing conspiratorial about it, unless the fundamental law of “supply and demand” no longer applies.

If fewer people want the greenback it becomes worth less. Is that conspiratorial?

Articles about the bourse have magically disappeared from the internet. The more reputable accounts of the potential disaster have slipped into a cyber black-hole.

No matter. If the bourse opens next week then gold will shoot into the stratosphere while jittery currency traders continue to edge away from the shaky greenback.

The Bush administration has done irreparable damage to our currency. Under the guidance of the Federal Reserve, Bush has increased government spending by 35% while raising the national debt a whopping $3 trillion. The only thing keeping the dollar on its lofty perch is the oil trade and that may soon change.

The dollar fell steadily during Bush’s first years in office as currency traders recognized Bush’s intention to enshrine deficit spending as a permanent function of government. The greenback has managed to keep its head above water due to shaky lending practices in the mortgage industry (which sluiced trillions into domestic housing) and because of the estimated $2.3 trillion circulating in oil transactions. The increase in oil prices has allowed the Fed to keep the printing presses going at full-tilt while Bush’s friends were making off with hundreds of billions in lavish tax cuts.

Now, it appears that the game is over. Oil thirsty nations will be free to purchase petroleum in a stable currency leaving Uncle Sam to flail away in ocean of red ink.

Nearly 70% of the reserves in the world’s central banks are currently denominated in US dollars. This monopoly allows the US to purchase valuable resources with fiat currency and maintain enormous deficits without hyper-inflation. It is the perfect rip-off. The administration has shown its willingness to go to war and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people to defend this global extortion-racket. However, forces are in play now that will make it impossible to maintain the present system. If the Fed increases interest rates much more the $9 trillion housing bubble will burst, and if it doesn’t raise rates, the $2 billion of cash inflows the government needs each day to cover its trade deficit will evaporate.

It is a “lose-lose” situation.

The opening of Iran’s bourse will only hasten the inevitable decline of the dollar and a death-spiral for the American economy; that is why Congress passed the Iran Freedom Support Act last week (even before the Security Council had made its recommendations!) Hidden in the small print of the legislation is a clue that reveals Congress’ real intentions:

“The Congress declares that it is the policy of the United States to deny Iran the ability to support acts of international terrorism….by limiting the development of Iran’s ability to explore for, extract, refine, or transport by pipeline petroleum resources.”

Yes indeed; Iran’s plan to sell oil in euros is now tantamount to an act of “international terrorism”, a clear sign of the importance that Washington attaches to the coming bourse.

The fate of the greenback is entirely the result of Bush’s enormous tax cuts, profligate spending, and a deeply-flawed foreign policy agenda. By now, Bush and co. had expected to topple regimes in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan and Somalia. If his “5 year campaign” had been successful then Washington would control enough of the world’s oil to force the other nations to continue using the dollar even while the gargantuan debt kept piling up. This explains why the oil giants linked arms with the 12 central banks to dupe the American people into the apocryphal war on terror. Terrorism is simply a public relations scam that conceals the ongoing global resource war.

America is now facing a slow-motion meltdown that could escalate into a widespread run on the dollar. Attacking Iran will only aggravate the situation and push tenuous states towards new alliances. (China, India, Venezuela and Russia have already expressed support for the new bourse)

If the bourse opens as scheduled they’ll be no turning back. The Bush administration is loaded with hawks who still believe the issue can be resolved through force. They have learned nothing from Iraq.

Military action will do nothing to relieve America’s enormous account imbalances or lesson the vulnerability of the ailing greenback. The dollar is teetering on the brink and it’s about to get a big shove from behind.

Big changes are coming whether we want them or not.

I don't agree with everything in this article, but it makes some interesting points.
 
No, nuking Iran is NOT analogous to killing a crazed murderer in self defense. It IS analogous to going to the house of someone you REALLY don't like or get along with, and blowing it up, killing the guy you don't like, his wife, his parents, grandparents, children, nieces and nephews. All because you think he MIGHT be out to get you someday.

You are right.

It is analogous to the said religion-crazed murderer assembling his MG43 while he is yelling at you through a megaphone that he will use it to mow down yourself, your family, your relatives, your neighbours, their families, and their relatives, in fact your entire street, while you sit on your gun and wonder if he really means it.

Hmmm... sounds like the act of a terrorist, or a paranoid schizophrenic.

Why thank you, very kind of you. But, ahem, the murder is still assembling his MG43...
 
Ok so like since what 1968 or so these folks have been rather up front with their thoughts on some things. Death to America and kill all the Jews. Really pretty straight shooting type of folks that say what is on their minds.

Now look at what they are up to. Sort of spooky now isn't it?

We just pretend they don't really mean what they say. And we look past what they are preparing to do. They really are quite honest about their intentions and what they are up to.

I think we should give them some credit and take them up on what they have been wanting for how many decades now.

Let's do it. Bring it on.
 
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