Number of magazines/rounds issued to current troops?

[dragongoddess]

"With the number of vets and combat vets sounding off, how can you come to the conclusion that this discussion violates OPSEC? If that were the case, then we would all keep our traps shut."


But you are not. Any info that gives your opponent the any edge means you may get killed, your squad gets killed or the mission fails. Now everyone of us who have worn the uniform know better than to talk about such information. Pointing out that its in a book or someone else said it does not lessen the responsibility you have to your troops, your crew, your platoon, your squad or whomever you are leading to keep your mouth SHUT. It also carries over after you have left. We are after all engaged in 2 different countries at this point and time and our Brothers and Sisters in Arms are dying in these countries.

Someone mentioned well they could count out pockets. OK let them count your pockets but all they will know is you have X number of pockets probably filled with some ammo but not all. So why provide them with accurate information.

Let me say this. If any of you who have providing this information were in my Crew, Squad or Platoon we would be in TOP's office in a flash. I would tell TOP do what you will with him/her but don't send this fool back me. If you do I will shoot this ^^$^$**^. As I will not have this person endanger the mission nor my people. And yea I was a first class, by the book, &%&^%$***/***/* and that was on my good days.

 

[possum]

Well If i was in your unit which would never happen, I would take you up on the offer as a matter of fact i woul lead the charge to "top's" office. which calling him "top" in my unit is a no-go, maybe because of the level of discipline that we have. but obviously your "top" is not a very smart man, if he would have an issue with that info being put out. i understand that there probally wasn't on-line study guides and on-line reference material when you were in but there have always been that information avaliable to the public.

Riddle me this batman!
If we knew exactly how many rds that every enemy insurgent in Iraq carried on them would that in anyway help us in defeating them? would that give us any sort of edge.

Now if we knew where the enemy were setting up an ambush, how many opfor were there and the types of weapons they were gonna use ie. heavy machine guns, rpg's, ied's etc. then that would give us a great advantage. ammo that is on our bodies or thiers dose not matter. period!

 

[Fosbery]

everyone of us who have worn the uniform know better than to talk about such information

Bullsh*t.

 

[possum]

Fosbery,
well stated, quick and to the point just like i like it. good thing everything in the army is dumbded down to an 8th grade level for dumb 11b's like myself, bulsh*t is easy enough for me to understand!

 

[Correia]

I'm sitting about five feet from a couple of plate carriers . I've got one of them loaded. In a two second glance I can tell that there are 12 AR mags, 3 Beretta mags, 2 grenade pouches, one smoke pouch, two smaller equipment pouches, and a med bag. It is an FBMG ACS, and on the back there is a Camelbak, it is heavy with armor, (soft and plates) and on the center of the chest is an empty G-Code MOLLE claw pistol holster.

The only thing that a smart terrorist couldn't figure out by looking at that what is in the two little equipment pouches. Since one is empty and the other has a Leatherman, I'm not sure if that info will cause the enemy a swift victory or not.

This information isn't even close to OPSEC. We've had people come on THR before and post sensitive info, and the mods have taken it down as soon as we saw it and realized what it was. This isn't even close to sensitive. I'm here at work with a bunch of Army SF people right now, and none of them seem to think that is significant at all.

 

[possum]

Since one is empty and the other has a Leatherman, I'm not sure if that info will cause the enemy a swift victory or not.

correia,

the terrorist never know you might be one of those highspeed guys and take out a whole terror cell with that leatherman, and end the war on terror for good and get the medal of honor. We better quite talking about the knives we use! (have you ever seen the ones that come in the demo kits?) now those are pretty sweet!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Draggongoddess, how does the enemy knowing that the basic load is 210 rounds give the enemy the edge in any way? Especially in light of the fact that many of mentioned that they routinely carry more than that?

Besides finding your current argument uncompelling, it also is contradicting the comments of senior NCOs and active duty combat personnel in this thread. Is there some reason you feel so strongly about this particular issue when none of your fellow soldiers do and the Army itself has the information available openly from a number of sources?

 

[ID_shooting]

dragongoddess I have to ask this, rank upon discharge and MOS please?

But before you answer, let me guess. IF you were Army, SFC since you spouted off "first class." As for MOS, I can only guess REMF of some sort supply maybe?

One thing I am certian of, you never served in a line unit, certainly were not a shooter of any type. How do I know? I was a 19K for 6 years before I wiped out my left knee, for the 2 years it took the Army to figure out what to do with me, I spent time in REMF and "broke d#$k" units.

The worst two years of my life, full of nothing but lazy arse Privates and NCOs more senior than I so full of them selves that every time you looked at them they tried to bring you up on some BS charge.

I am sorry to have to call you on it, but do call em as I see em.

BTW, what patch do you wear on your right arm?

 

[Fosbery]

Now, if that pouch had a Dark Ops covert deanimation tool, they'd be up the creek

 

[possum]

Id Shooting,
I wasn't gonna go there but we had no choice. I am curious myself!

 

[PvtPyle]

But you are not. Any info that gives your opponent the any edge means you may get killed, your squad gets killed or the mission fails. Now everyone of us who have worn the uniform know better than to talk about such information. Pointing out that its in a book or someone else said it does not lessen the responsibility you have to your troops, your crew, your platoon, your squad or whomever you are leading to keep your mouth SHUT. It also carries over after you have left. We are after all engaged in 2 different countries at this point and time and our Brothers and Sisters in Arms are dying in these countries.

Exactly. They don't have to count the pocket in the pictures, they have plenty of dead GI's and Marines to count them from, due in large part to big Army conventional mentality (but that is another rant for another day). While I agree that we should not give them any information, if it is open source they already have it. They are much more adept at searching the net than some of us, they get taught by the best their country or China has to offer. Get over it and move on with your life. There is nothing here that is OPSEC in any way shape or form. They could get the same information by surfing the online gear stores, or by downloading any of the infantry manuals that is already on the net in open source publication. Hell, they could get it from the airsofter boards.

Let me say this. If any of you who have providing this information were in my Crew, Squad or Platoon we would be in TOP's office in a flash. I would tell TOP do what you will with him/her but don't send this fool back me. If you do I will shoot this ^^$^$**^. As I will not have this person endanger the mission nor my people. And yea I was a first class, by the book, &%&^%$***/***/* and that was on my good days.

Yet one more reason I am oh so glad there are not women in SF units below the Group level.eing by the book in a REMF unit is not exactly like the book down in the weeds at the BN or small unit level. But I am cuious what "book" you are reading from, that way I can make sure that we don't have it in the supply room. That kind of mind set and attitude is what gets people down range killed. The answers to most of the field problems in todays military are not found in books, we are having to write the solutions as we go. Improvise, adapt and over come. Or as we say in our unit, "Anything, Any Place, Any Time". In order to do that you have to think outside the box and keep your nose in the world and out of a book.

I am glad you enjoyed the good old days. But there is no place for that mentality on the modern battle field. And if you think this was a rant on big Army, this is not even the prolog.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

But before you answer, let me guess. IF you were Army, SFC since you spouted off "first class."

And yea I was a first class, by the book, &%&^%$***/***/* and that was on my good days.

Honesty compels me to point out that she said that she was a first class *expletive deleted*. Which I don't believe was meant to imply that she was a SFC. I'm willing to concede her point...


(I concur heavily on the underlined if.)

 

[ID_shooting]

PW,

Ya, htat may be a stretch on my part, but I have heard more than one SFC go off on rants about "first class."

When I was in AIT, we had en E7 DS that would constantly tell us that there were only two "first class" soldiers in the Army. Got kinda old after a while.

Not making it E7 myself, I wonder if it is somthing they taught in ANOC.

 

[jotto]

ID,

Its not something tought in a Combat Arms ANCOC.
19E
19K
19D
21B

 

[JShirley]

the kind of info that gets people Killed

Rubbish. Total, unmitigated BS. IEDs are the weapon of choice. If someone asked any detailed info about ECMS on convoy vehicles in Iraq or A-stan, that thread would disappear damn fast, and the poster would get a stern warning at the minimum. As has been pointed out- if you "play by the book"- the ARMY (presumably above your pay grade) has decided this is open-source material. Follow your own rules. I have yet to see the "shoot team members you don't agree with" instruction in any FM.

NOW- no personal attacks. Madam, you are wrong, extremely wrong, but let's everyone stick to issues, not personal attacks. IE- "Your statement is not in accordance with Army doctrine" vs. "REMF pencil pushers should shut up and let us do the fighting".

John

 

[remfield]

it varies

i have plenty of field time on this one. honestly this is bad but screw this you people need the truth. You get an m16 issued before you leave and you are required to carry it 24/7 with 0 rounds until you go outside the fence. After that you get a huge influx of ammo. If your AF you get a 9mm with about 50 rounds in the fence and that usually dont go out. The army is in the same bout and they carry an empty weapon 3/4 of the time and that is crazy.

 

[strambo]

Oh yes it is. This is the kind of info that gets people Killed.

I wouldn't post info that could help the enemy even if it was open source. I wouldn't want them to get it from me, especially since I'm in harm's way.

The reason this is OK to post isn't so much because the info can be found elsewhere, but because it is of no value to the enemy. If the enemy reads "210 rds" and thinks it is a small amount, will he then try to engage us in a protracted battle until we run out of ammo? I sure hope so, it's the big, bad stuff on the other end of our handmikes that count a lot more than rifle rounds. Let them engage us in a fixed battle...they already know better and ammo has nothing to do with it. Conversely, if they think it is a lot of ammo will they then refuse to fight us and use hit and run tactics? They already are and again it isn't because we carry 210 or 1010 rounds of ammo.

 

[PvtPyle]

You get an m16 issued before you leave and you are required to carry it 24/7 with 0 rounds until you go outside the fence. After that you get a huge influx of ammo. If your AF you get a 9mm with about 50 rounds in the fence and that usually dont go out. The army is in the same bout and they carry an empty weapon 3/4 of the time and that is crazy.

Dude, if you are in a unit that wont give you ammo until you go outside the wire, or wants you to carry it around empty, you need to find a new unit. A unit whos commander can not trust his troops with live weapons needs to get a new commander that will make sure his trrops are trained properly. We are having more and more ND's, and now (finally) the army has decided that we should probably train our troops a bit better.

That just sucks that they do that to you guys.

 

[possum]

I though this thread should be over long ago, but...........

You get an m16 issued before you leave and you are required to carry it 24/7 with 0 rounds until you go outside the fence. After that you get a huge influx of ammo. If your AF you get a 9mm with about 50 rounds in the fence and that usually dont go out. The army is in the same bout and they carry an empty weapon 3/4 of the time and that is crazy.

wow that is crazy but, PVT Pyle is right you really need to get to another unit if at all possible or change branches or something that is outrageous!

 

[JShirley]

In my location, "inside the wire", we are required to carry self-defense ammo. We load it when going outside the wire.

 

[possum]

In my location, "inside the wire", we are required to carry self-defense ammo. We load it when going outside the wire.

"Force protection ammo", like one magazine with you at all times was what they called it when i was in Iraq. But me and my gunner had a good plan, if the camp was to come under attack, our priority would be to get back to our bunks, and get a gear (if we were at the dfac or other places), then fight our way about a 1/4 mile to the motorpool and get our bradilac rockin!

 

[AndyC]

For my part, 4 x handgun mags, 4 x 30-round rifle mags in the vest, 10 or 12 x 30-round rifle mags in a grab-bag - and 1 x 30-round mag in the rifle itself.

 

[trickyasafox]

ok someone smarter than me explain this, why issue 7 mags =210 rounds when you can issue 8 mags=240 rounds and are then able to issue everyone whole boxes of ammunition instead of half a box or a single stripper out of a box of two?

am i missing something?

 

[kfranz]

Mag pouch capacity

 

[possum]

ok someone smarter than me explain this, why issue 7 mags =210 rounds when you can issue 8 mags=240 rounds and are then able to issue everyone whole boxes of ammunition instead of half a box or a single stripper out of a box of two?am i missing something?

Mag pouch capacity

the old school ammo pouches have room for three, and you got issued two of them, like the LCE. which is 6 + 1 in weapon.

then we were issued the lbv which has 2 pockets on each side i think it is, it is hard for me to remeber because i got it from cif and never used it, but I am pretty sure it had 1-2 mag holder and 1-1 mag holder on each side which was more up on your chest than on a pistol belt, like the LCE. the pouches were also canted toward the center of the body.

Then we got the new, well new to us! molle system, which i think came with the capability to hold 10 i think it was, again i recieved it but never really used it, i used blackhawk gear instead. the molle gear was a big step up from the other stuff though. I recieved 2 triple mag pouchs but they help one mag per and had the loops on the outside for attaching other pouches, then i had 2 double mag pouches that were issued as well. even though we had more pouches, you still run out of room quick with extra batteries, field dressings, gps, etc.

That is why i invested in my own equipment, and set it up like i wanted it. the recon chest rig and various other pouches really worked out well for me.