NY starts confiscating guns from registrations

[RetiredUSNChief]

Your post seems to be full of ifs and whens that are not occurring.

That is the opposite of what is happening in most states and at the national level.

What part of the RKBA have we lost, at the national level, int he past 10 years? The "AWB" expired in 2004, which was getting an awful lot back...what since then have we lost?

Meanwhile, the majority of states are making progress. Shall Issue laws continue to pass, and restrictions/places off limits continue to be reduced.

They're not "ifs and whens that are not occurring". These are active gun control agendas, and they've been professed as such by such people as:

Diane Feinstein - "If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"

Andrew Coumo: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

Richard Harris (reporter) quoting Pete Shields: "The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being produced and sold in this country. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition–except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors–totally illegal."


Tell me this isn't actively being pursued by gun-control agencies/groups. We discuss this all the time on RKBA issues here on this site alone.

 

[Warp]

They're not "ifs and whens that are not occurring". These are active gun control agendas, and they've been professed as such by such people as:

Diane Feinstein - "If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"

Andrew Coumo: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

Richard Harris (reporter) quoting Pete Shields: "The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being produced and sold in this country. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition–except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors–totally illegal."


Tell me this isn't actively being pursued by gun-control agencies/groups. We discuss this all the time on RKBA issues here on this site alone.

Exactly.

Agendas

Not things that have happened or are in the process of happening.

They are merely agendas because they fail.

Obviously we need to be vigilant and pro-active to see that they continue to fail AND to make progress ourselves, but you are going on and on about things that just simply aren't.

 

[SilentStalker]

Remain vigilant. I still see it as we are losing ground. Sure other states are making progress but we are losing ground in big key states. And here we are again arguing about the little things when we should be mobilizing and forming an offensive.

 

[barnbwt]

The anti-gun crowd isn't in it for the long haul so much as there will always be anti-gunners. The same goes for our side, btw, so long as we bother to make more gun owners. I don't know if this view subscribes more to Hobbes, Locke, or Machiavelli, but I think the vast majority of people are ambivalent to tyranny; neither preferring nor despising it, they merely wish to exist in an environment with as few choices as possible to keep things simple. Thus, a person raised in the absence of a freedom will not desire it, generally.

That means we have to be proactive in getting guns into gun free zones (obviously through legal means such as new-shooter outreach events and the like in big cities ) or our numbers will dwindle with time as an inevitability. We have to be in it for the long haul, they just have to keep producing people who sleepwalk through life. So long as the forces underpinning politics are in our favor, we need not fear the most unhinged ravings of the statist nutmeats. At present, we are holding our ground with minor gains of lost ground. We are not however, "winning", since we are not doing nearly a good enough job wooing cities to our side. Until we do, we are inevitably doomed, but only through lack of our effort will that come to pass. We can win, and we are closer to winning than we've been in a long, long time (ever?)

"Then remind them how we stopped the assault weapons ban, dead in it's tracks"
I love this statement. For so long we've been on the defensive; even when we won or stood fast, we'd have to justify it with reasons for the victory. As they are so wont to do, it's about time we flatly tell them that it doesn't matter if they right or wrong (they know they're right anyway, after all) they are not getting this thing, and there's nothing they can do about it but pout

"When you cannot afford the taxes involved in firearms ownership and use, then your right has been removed."
I'd also add "when the government will not process taxes quickly enough to permit firearms ownership." The ATF backlog is over 1year for Form 1's on SBR/SBS/Suppressors/etc. The whole justification of the NFA is that we do have access to these items, so long as we pay taxes on them. We are rapidly approaching a point where no sane judge would say the government is attempting to abide by their end of that arrangement.

Warp, don't steal bandwidth

TCB

 

[Warp]

Remain vigilant. I still see it as we are losing ground. Sure other states are making progress but we are losing ground in big key states. And here we are again arguing about the little things when we should be mobilizing and forming an offensive.

New York has been a lost cause for a long time. And that "SAFE" law is doomed.

Colorado was the battleground state, and with the recalls I'd say we are in line to win the war there.

 

[Big_John1961]

Well, another case of people breaking the law and using the registration lists to find them. CA it is focused on finding people that cannot own guns at all. NY is jumping straight to guns they don't like.

There's guns the do like?

 

[Warp]

There's guns the do like?

No. Just guns they are not currently after.

Like rifles or shotguns that only hold 5 rounds.

Oh, wait...

 

[danez71]

Ya know... after thinking about this more, I think Warp is right.

To heck with " United We Stand, Divided We Fall ".

Everything is peachy as far as 2A rights go and we should all turn our backs on our fellow pro 2A'ers in any other states that the Brady campaign gives good marks to.

 

[Warp]

Ya know... after thinking about this more, I think Warp is right.

To heck with " United We Stand, Divided We Fall ".

Everything is peachy as far as 2A rights go and we should all turn our backs on our fellow pro 2A'ers in any other states that the Brady campaign gives good marks to.

Epic straw man is epic.

 

[MErl]

There's guns they do like?

heh
For now, flintlock muskets seem safe enough.

 

[armoredman]

No, I seem to remember an issue with someone given a flintlock musket who lives/lived in NYC who couldn't possess it due to local laws...famous guy, too, dagnabbit, can't remember who that is.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

heh
For now, flintlock muskets seem safe enough.

Yeah...but the gunpowder required to make them work isn't. You know...homemade pressure cooker bombs and what-not.

I imagine if they have their way, people will be looking at muzzle loaders and saying things like "Oh, look! A heavy stick!"

 

[KenW.]

That is the problem when each polical subdivision within a State is permitted to set and enforce it's own law or ordinance. What is permitted in one jurtisdiction turns a person into a criminal when they cross an invisible line.

In Utah, only the State law applies when it comes to weapons. Cities, Counties, etc, may not enact thier own.

 

[Midwest]

heh
For now, flintlock muskets seem safe enough.

It isn't just the politicians that need to voted out, the media needs to be replaced as well. The media actually came out against black powder guns. The media called it a "loophole".


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=5714222

" Eyewitness News went undercover at Dicks Sporting Goods store in Upstate New York and with less information than is needed to borrow a library book, we bought a 50-caliber black powder hunting rifle. We just counted out the cash, about $200 and walked away with a brand new, highly powerful weapon.

So, 10 minutes inside this store, I was able to get a gun identical to the one the St. John's student had. I got this with no questions asked, no background check, no identification needed -- all perfectly legal. Let's make no mistake, this isn't a toy, it's a very lethal weapon. "


What is the term for this? Yellow Journalism ? And this wasn't a recent story either, it dates back six years ago.

 

[danez71]

Epic straw man is epic.

Well, thanks but it really doesn't apply.

You're one of the one that has given up on places like NY and feel that pretty much things are going our way nationally and in most states and indicate that people should give up and leave those states.

Lets look at your quotes in this thread:

We've been making progress at the state level for a good while now, on the whole, and the lack of receding at the national level is a great thing.

While places like Chicago and D.C. have a lot of violent crime, and gun crime, with very strict laws, most other states are making progress and getting less restrictive...and there is 0 traction for bans at the national level.

What would make more sense and have a higher probability of working? Standing up and going toe to toe with the greatest army in the world, or running away to somewhere less threatened?

Now, make things even better by reducing the weight the anti states carry at the federal level, and things will only improve.

Agendas

Not things that have happened or are in the process of happening.

They are merely agendas because they fail.

So you can try to continually dismiss those that have a different view than yours, but YOUR reality is, based on your statements, that you feel that there's really nothing to worry about in most states and nationally, so don't bother trying to regain the bad states that you've already written off.

 

[Warp]

You snipped quotes COMPLETELY out of context.

For example, that quote of mine you just put up there:

"What would make more sense and have a higher probability of working? Standing up and going toe to toe with the greatest army in the world, or running away to somewhere less threatened?"

Go back and look at where I posted that, and what I was responding to...and think about it for a minute. You'll probably see that what i was saying and referring to is nothing AT ALL similar to what you are portraying it as in the above post.

 

[barnbwt]

Sheesh, no one's saying "abandon NYC," we're simply saying that change will have to come from without, and that internal struggling is a waste of effort that would be more effective applied elsewhere. Much to my chagrin as a freedom-lover; "they will have to have freedom imposed upon them for ours to be assured"

I'd also like to play Devil's Advocate for a minute on the Black Powder thing;

If we, as a society, have decided that guns should be regulated according to various rules, to prevent their misuse (debatable) or possession (debatable-er) by the untrustworthy, then why shouldn't muzzle loading/black powder arms be regulated the same as modern guns? Air rifles, even. They all expel a projectile at lethal velocities in order to deliver damage on a target, so logically, regulations should apply to all like devices (potato guns, for example)

Again, Devil's Advocate; if we're going to have gun laws, they might as well have some sense (if not logic) underpinning their implementation . They've been written so stupidly thus far, that I'm not prepared to completely discount the theory behind some gun regulations. Written and enforced properly, they probably are capable of reducing gun violence (and even regular violence) in a society, albeit at a tremendous cost to their freedoms which I'm not prepared to pay here in the States.

Let's make no mistake, this [BP muzzle loader] isn't a toy, it's a very lethal weapon

That's not "yellow journalism," that's a fact. A muzzle loader is every bit as dangerous as a modern gun (more so because goobers have to mete out the powder themselves ), and every bit as harmless in the proper hands. I'd also agree that a 50cal muzzle-stuffer is "highly powerful" compared to a poodle shooter

TCB

 

[danez71]

You snipped quotes COMPLETELY out of context.

For example, that quote of mine you just put up there:

"What would make more sense and have a higher probability of working? Standing up and going toe to toe with the greatest army in the world, or running away to somewhere less threatened?"

Go back and look at where I posted that, and what I was responding to...and think about it for a minute. You'll probably see that what i was saying and referring to is nothing AT ALL similar to what you are portraying it as in the above post.

Ok. I'll give you the one quote... but all the others are not out of context. If they are, then you need to work on writing in context.

So I'll trade you the one above and substitute with:

New York has been a lost cause for a long time. And that "SAFE" law is doomed.

Colorado was the battleground state, and with the recalls I'd say we are in line to win the war there.

You speak of CO as if they didn't loose 1st and not acknowledging they are still clawing their way back. Sure, the quit before she was recalled but the bad laws STILL STAND and her party appoints her replacement.


And:

That is the opposite of what is happening in most states and at the national level.

What part of the RKBA have we lost, at the national level, int he past 10 years? The "AWB" expired in 2004, which was getting an awful lot back...what since then have we lost?

Meanwhile, the majority of states are making progress. Shall Issue laws continue to pass, and restrictions/places off limits continue to be reduced.

And you don't seem to remember that W Bush said he's sign the AWB if it got to his desk. We're dang lucky it didn't.

(Or that NV got more restricted laws passed or any of the others.)

Think about it. 2 out of the 3 branches of the government wanted the AWB renewed. And W was/is one of us!


You cant make 1/2 dozen posts saying these things... defending your opinion and then suddenly back track and say they are all being taken out of context.

I do agree that the tide is shifting. But its delicate at best.

We still have 2 of the 3 branches of govt that want to turn the 2A into a distant memory and a Supreme Court thats barely titling toward pro-constitution with at least 1 conservative nearing retirement.

That's factual reality.

 

[barnbwt]

"And W was/is one of us!"
No one serious has ever said the Republicans were ever out to act in our best interests; merely that they are the best thing we have going currently. Just this week the House leadership passed on a voice vote, a ten year ban on firearms composed of polymer, an emerging new technology which, for all we know today, may become as commonplace as CNC in a short while. We can't trust any of these guys, and can only try our best to make the consequences of our disfavor very clear to these jerks, and follow through on it when they do cross us.

Nevada has been no bastion of gun rights for a while, now. Colorado was to be the turning of the country's tide towards blue for the foreseeable future. Due to this and other overreaches, that state has halted the progression, at least for the time being. Anti Meccas like NYC or CA can and do implement nearly anything they dream up with near impunity; they no longer fear electoral consequence from gun owning voters. There is no longer representation for those folks. They waited too long to fight back, if there ever was a meaningful resistance to be made against these creeping measures. Now the only real hope is for external forces, or the wildcard judiciary, to swoop in and reset the playing field, where hopefully they can hold the line better a second time.

TCB

 

[adkguy]

I remember from the late 1980's that there were 1500 NYC residents that had FFLs and between them owned 2000 automatic weapons. The regime passed a decree that said you have 6 months to surrender them or get them out of state. Bob Herbert was a columnist for (I think) the New York Daily news. He wondered if all these people were just setting there, guns loaded, waiting for someone to break in. Thought at the time that was an ignorant question. Never did see a racial breakdown of who had the legal autos and who had the illegal ones, doubt the results of such a study would ever be released anyhow.

 

[Warp]

Ok. I'll give you the one quote... but all the others are not out of context. If they are, then you need to work on writing in context.

So I'll trade you the one above and substitute with:



You speak of CO as if they didn't loose 1st and not acknowledging they are still clawing their way back. Sure, the quit before she was recalled but the bad laws STILL STAND and her party appoints her replacement.


And:



And you don't seem to remember that W Bush said he's sign the AWB if it got to his desk. We're dang lucky it didn't.

(Or that NV got more restricted laws passed or any of the others.)

Think about it. 2 out of the 3 branches of the government wanted the AWB renewed. And W was/is one of us!


You cant make 1/2 dozen posts saying these things... defending your opinion and then suddenly back track and say they are all being taken out of context.

I do agree that the tide is shifting. But its delicate at best.

We still have 2 of the 3 branches of govt that want to turn the 2A into a distant memory and a Supreme Court thats barely titling toward pro-constitution with at least 1 conservative nearing retirement.

That's factual reality.

Like I said, I'd say we are in line to win the war in Colorado.

Bush didn't sign an AWB. That's factual reality.

The recent landmark SCOTUS 2A cases have gone our way, and congress has refused to put an AWB or anything else Hussein asked for on his desk. That says 2/3 of our branches are not wanting to turn the 2A into a distant memory. That's factual reality.

 

[danez71]

I shouldn't have said "branches of government". I misspoke. What I was meaning is that 2 of the 3 parts that are needed to make laws; Senate, House, and Executive). SCOTUS basically only overturns unjust laws IF they are willing to hear the case a decade down the road.

So again, 2 of the 3 needed to pass the AWB wanted to. By just repeating W didn't sign it shows you're ignoring that he would have.

The AWB expired and was only blocked from being renewed. We didn't "win" anything back. We were able to block the majority.

We got laws overturned, after about 20 yrs, with Heller and McDonald by SCOTUS by a narrow margin of 1. And that 1 isn't going to be around much longer.

Again, youre just repeating yourself in regards to CO but we didn't win anything. No laws that have passed have been overturned. And a new anti will be appointed.

You're counting your chickens before they have hatched yet with RetiredUSNChief you say his post is full of "Ifs".

So I'll leave it there. You seem pretty comfortable with our position. I see hope but I'm not comfortable.

 

[goon]

To put a finer point on it, who here is willing to pull up stakes and move to NYC?

Are you willing to give up your "free" life and your AR-15 and move from South Carolina or Ohio to NYC, then begin lobbying for change there?
If you're not willing to do that, aren't you letting the anti's win? Why won't you move there, change the numbers, and renew the RKBA in NYC? Aren't you selling out the RKBA for your own selfish interests?

Yep, that's a rhetorical question. Because I most assuredly am not willing to move there either. And since I'm not willing to live there, I can't blame anyone else who puts a place like that in the rearview mirror and never looks back.
That's just how it is.

 

[Warp]

I shouldn't have said "branches of government". I misspoke. What I was meaning is that 2 of the 3 parts that are needed to make laws; Senate, House, and Executive). SCOTUS basically only overturns unjust laws IF they are willing to hear the case a decade down the road.

So again, 2 of the 3 needed to pass the AWB wanted to. By just repeating W didn't sign it shows you're ignoring that he would have.

The AWB expired and was only blocked from being renewed. We didn't "win" anything back. We were able to block the majority.

We got laws overturned, after about 20 yrs, with Heller and McDonald by SCOTUS by a narrow margin of 1. And that 1 isn't going to be around much longer.

Again, youre just repeating yourself in regards to CO but we didn't win anything. No laws that have passed have been overturned. And a new anti will be appointed.

You're counting your chickens before they have hatched yet with RetiredUSNChief you say his post is full of "Ifs".

So I'll leave it there. You seem pretty comfortable with our position. I see hope but I'm not comfortable.

You're counting chickens that I just ate as scrambled eggs for breakfast yesterday.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

I believe you will see the CA and NYC actions begin to spread. SO the question is how does one stop this. First one has to get off their back side and get involved and by involved I mean more than sending an email.

Hand written notes get close attention. Emails get lost in the digital blackhole aka the trash can. Introduce yourself to your elected officials.

Support those 2nd Amendment supporters with your time, money and vote.

Start a local group that will round up other gun owners, get them registered to vote and get them to the polls on election day.

If you have early voting have have the gun owners show up to vote then head out for an election day match.

Use matches to get people registered to vote.

Get a table at gun shows to register people to vote.

Develop a phone tree to remind fellow gun owners to go out and vote.

3itching and moaning about things in a gun forum is a waste of energy. Get involved. Get involved NOW.