NYC cops took my knife...

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Mr. Ouchie

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I had a folding knife clipped to my jeans pocket (inside), walked past some cops and one of them saw the clip and stopped me. He asked what I had in my pocket, I took out the knife and gave it to him. He said, "this is considered a gravity knife" while he tried to flick it open with one hand. It took him five tries. He must have used the thumb stud on the last try.

oh, they started asking me if I had a handgun and stuff, and for the life of me I couldn't figure out why. Later I realized it was probably because the knife was Beretta-branded.

I was given a summons and a date... told I could have been arrested but they were being nice to me, and I was told I couldn't get my knife back. I asked that if that particular knife would be legal to carry if I had it completely concealed, and the other cop (who was very nice) said yes.

I'm a little worried about the whole gravity knife classification though. I've read that a knife like the SOG Trident, which has a spring assist, may actually not be considered a gravity knife because the spring also biases the knife to stay closed. But if a cop is just going to use the thumb stud, it really doesn't matter does it? So I'm not quite certain what I should get to replace the knife.

:uhoh:
 
You can't carry a gravity knife legally in NY, concealed or otherwise, so both cops were wrong (or just the moron who called it a gravity knife).

Contact Kniferights.com and ATKI and see if there's an attorney that can assist you. Look at the sticky at the top of the forum for their links. Send them emails right now! If you can get a letter sent to the AG/DA you might get the whole thing thrown out and your knife back.
 
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Now this is a thread worth following---especially for us New Yorkers. Carrying my SOG Blink---a spring assisted opener---in Manhattan has caused me numerous problems at the Museum of the American Indian, Top-of-the-World at Rockefeller Center, and the Statue of Liberty to name just a few. To take the boat out to the Statue, for example, I had to inconspicuously hide my knife in the bushes at Battery Park---or remain behind while my family went out to the island. Miraculously, it was there when I returned. Ditto for other Manhattan landmarks. i'm considering buying one of those ceramic and ABS plastic knives to fly under the radar, but I suspect it's better to simply not carry a knife. Land of the Free indeed.

i wish you well, Mr. Ouchie, because that could just as well have been me in your predicament. Knife law is even more arcane than gun law from what I understand, so think about hso's suggestion.
 
Basically, an over-zealous DA some years back ruled that pretty much any folder that locks in the open position is a gravity knife. That's life in New Yorkistan City. Interestingly enough, one can legally carry a fixed blade of up to 4" in length as long as it is concealed. Good luck with your court date. Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree, which I assume is what you were hit with, is a Class A misdemeanor so I hope you can get a lawyer.
 
If your knife has a ball detent or some other mechanism holding it closed you have a better chance to challenge the "gravity knife" characterization.
 
So I'm not quite certain what I should get to replace the knife.
Click to expand...

Get a bus ticket to the south!

Seriously, if it would be legal in your pocket but illegal if they spot the clip, what on earth is their logic?

The knife is the same, is it the clip that is so dangerous?

I was born in New York but as soon as I reliased it I slapped my mother, grabbed my bottle and diapers and headed south.
 
Now I'm a bit worried. They said the summons was a simple matter of going to the court and paying $20. As far as I know (just what they told me), I didn't get charged with a misdemeanor. They said that going before the court would be a matter of the judge sizing up my character. Which seems a bit subjective.
 
In NY state possession of a gravity knife is a misdemeanor. What does the piece of paper in your hand say? What law does it say you're accused of breaking? We already know that cop A either is a liar or doesn't know a gravity knife from his 3rd point of contact and that cop B is equally dim or dishonest so what they say is far less important than what the legal document says. Do you have the option of just paying the fine and not going before a judge? In other words, did the cop steal your knife and ticket you with the expectation that you're too busy to go to court and would just pay the $20 fine for having your knife stolen?

If you're going to court you should get some simple supporting evidence that this is a common pocketknife and that the officer simply misinterpreted the knife as a gravity knife since he was able after several tries to flick it open.

What make and model was the knife? There are a lot of Beretta folders out there.
 
This was the knife in question:
http://www.themartialist.com/beretta.htm

I don't have the summons with me at the moment, I'll check to see what it says exactly. I believe it doesn't give me the option of simply paying, nor the amount for that matter. The cops said $20, but it could be anything.

This has certainly soured me a bit towards the cops.
 
As an owner of a Beretta 92FS,I must have that knife.

I wouldn't believe the $20 fine and walk out the door mess. They said that so they could move you along quickly,IMO.

Even in my Podunk city there is an automatic $100 court fee on top of whatever fine you have to pay and you're talking about Bloomberg country for God's sake. Definitely take the advice of the knife rights lawyer.
 
I think that knife shares the same stigma as so-called "black/assault rifles" in jackass places like NYC and NJ. Single blade, tanto style, black, pocket clip. "Why does a person need something like that?", "It's only good for one thing...hurting people", and so on. :rolleyes:

If I know I am traveling to some place like a NYC, the only edged item I take is something innocuous like a SAK or multi-tool. It's just not worth the possible grief otherwise. If I'm on the road w/a single blade folder and not sure about the jurisdiction, I won't leave it clipped to my pocket. Unclip it and keep it in your pocket out of sight.
 
number one: you had no legal obligation to show the cop your knife. Your bad.

number two: get a lawyer and counter sue them. A good enough charge and the whole thing might be dropped

number three: move to Arizona or Alaska where they understand the concept of freedom
 
Been searching for another site with that knife to get the blade length, from the site you linked it appears to be under 3" which would be good, as above 3" could be another sticking point.

Good luck with this one, as folks have said, get a lawyer asap.
 
Right, so the summons says, "In violation of Sec. 10-133 Sub. C" and "Knife in open view". Which from here says:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/10/1/10-133

c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or
park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any
knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually
using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of
this section.

Section D not really applying to me in any way.

and:
e. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine
of not more than three hundred dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding
fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment

On the back it says to plead guilty I have to show up in court, to plead not guilty I can send it in.

According to what I've been reading it's a violation, not a criminal offense. However, if the cop had wanted to, he could have arrested me for having a 'gravity knife', which is a much more serious thing.

Problem is, I can't really afford a lawyer right now. I've got two months until the court date though, so I'll see what I can do.

What I'm taking away from this -- I'm going to forget about carrying a knife in NYC. It doesn't seem worth the risk when they can arbitrarily classify things as they like. I should have had it concealed, but they still do random searches in this city, and what if it had come up then and they didn't like the look of me?

Not handing over the knife really wasn't an option either, it probably would have just gotten me arrested.

:banghead:
 
From what the cited you for it seems they got you for showing the knife clip and it didn't matter what type the knife was. The police were just sprouting bs to make it likely you turn it over and move on. Since you weren't really using it for anything, you are probably pretty screwed at this point.

It a matter of your word against two police officers.
 
No, Zeke, they don't. Apparently the clip was exposed and they found justification there. However, everybody visiting certain landmarks get searched in a manner similar to an airline search. I don't like it, and no, it doesn't make me feel any more secure knowing that I had to surrender my Swiss Army knife in the interest of "security." But that's simply how it is.

And before the NYC bashing gets out of hand, consider that over 13 million people live and work in relative harmony, in an area smaller than many ranches in the west. Think about taking the population of your Smalltown, USA, and sticking all its citizens in a huge apartment complex. I wonder how people would get along. It's a miracle, really, that things go as well as they do. All things considered, NYC is a fabulous place to live and work despite its restrictions.
 
Mr. Ouchie said:
Right, so the summons says, "In violation of Sec. 10-133 Sub. C" and "Knife in open view". Which from here says:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/10/1/10-133

c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or
park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any
knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually
using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of
this section.

Section D not really applying to me in any way.

and:
e. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine
of not more than three hundred dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding
fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment

On the back it says to plead guilty I have to show up in court, to plead not guilty I can send it in.

According to what I've been reading it's a violation, not a criminal offense. However, if the cop had wanted to, he could have arrested me for having a 'gravity knife', which is a much more serious thing.

Problem is, I can't really afford a lawyer right now. I've got two months until the court date though, so I'll see what I can do.

:banghead:
Click to expand...

Can't really affording to NOT have a lawyer always trumps not affording to have one. Find the money.
 
So let me understand what I read. Mr. Ouchie is soured by the police for enforcing a law on the books? Yes,it may be a crappy law to you or me, but to many New Yorkers it's probably a law they are glad that is on the books. They probably feel safer. Cops are paid to do just what they did. Also if they did in fact summons you in instead of arresting you, I would consider that a pretty good break. Myself, not only would I not line in NYC, I won't even visit it. The NYC mentality is not to allow anyone to be able to protect themselves. Much like England. No thanks.
 
I'm not soured by them enforcing the law. I'm soured by the law, and by the leeway they seem to have in interpreting the gravity knife issue. I don't like effectively being threatened with arrest for possessing something that is legal when a cop feels like it, and illegal when he doesn't.

And yes, they do random searches beyond just landmarks. Subways, for instance. It seems to come and go with the latest terrorist threat...
 
What happens to the knife in this situation? Does it just sit in an evidence room? To be later sold off at auction? Or destroyed? Does the police officer or anyone else have the ability to just keep the knife for themselves? Quite a few years ago I had an expandable baton and was given the choice to either give it to the officer or get arrested. Seems like a conflict of interest if the cops got to keep any of the loot they confiscate.
 
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