NYC cops took my knife...

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Seems the terrorists HAVE won...
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The NY Sullivan Act on handguns was 1911; I remember the 1950s TN "going armed" statute on "weapon of offense or defense" treating carrying a knife like this NY law. City laws on carrying knives and guns in public pre-existed 9/11 and were actually a lot worse in the 1950s.

warrantless searches
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In 1970 the dean of the U Chicago Law School, Norvall Morris, and co-author Gordon Hawkins in The Honest Politician's Guide to Crime Control proposed banning guns and suspending the Fourth Amendment to allow warrantless searches of person on the street or homes if the object was guns, with the observation that there can be no right to privacy in respect to possession of armament. The gun lobby is blamed for costing Morris the appointment to head of the Federal Law Enforcement Assistance Agency in 1979. Norris' anti-gun torch at the U Chicago Law School has been carried on by Gordon Hawkins, Frank Zimring, Albert Alschuler, Bernard Harcourt, Abner Mikva. Expect warrantless searches against possession of weapons to be a staple of anti-weapons laws advocated by the voodoo criminologists who want to ban things rather than address actual criminal behavior. Those Mayors Against Illegal Guns (Daley, Bloomberg, & Co.) want to make all guns illegal in the long run. The only way to do that is gross violation of the Fourth Amendment, and weapons laws based on a presumption of criminal intent regardless of the overt acts of the accused.
 
You know, we really ought to attach a cable to NYC and tow it across the pond to the UK. The laws, and the attitudes of most of the residents, seem to be about the same.
 
hirundo82 said:
You know, we really ought to attach a cable to NYC and tow it across the pond to the UK. The laws, and the attitudes of most of the residents, seem to be about the same.
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Hmmmm ... sounds like you and Congressman Hank Johnson (if you'll recall, he is the Georgia Democrat who was concerned that Guam might capsize) share the same belief that islands somehow float.

They don't.
 
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wow, that video was something else.....

to me it looked like a gross abuse of the written law coupled with a ton of anti-knife propaganda.

those "gravity knives" the clerk was showing the undercover operative opened maybe 10% when flicked.....hardly a gravity knife.

and when asked "are they dangerous?" to which the guy replied " i almost cut my fingers off....." . well duh....

hell, i almost lost some fingers in a power drill accident......so youd better watch out for those drill wielding hooligans looking to jack your wallet.
 
I have known for a long time that it is illegal to carry a knife in NYC in such a way that is is exposed to public view. The summons was for that offense. The "gravity knife" part of the conversation was just that, conversation. If the knife had been easier to flick open, perhaps the situation wold not have been a mere summons to appear in court.

Regarding the "illegal search" mentioned in one post: No illegal search here; contraband in plain view is subject to seizure. Once a person is lawfully detained, he can be frisked or searched, depending upon whether the officers have reasonable suspicion or probable cause. In this case, of course, the knife was primarily contraband because it WAS in plain view. A legal knife in NYC must be concealed.

FWIW, I only read the first page of this thread, so others may have already said what I just said. I am about to log off and hit the road, so didn't have time to read all the posts.
 
A lot of folks grew up carrying Boy Scout knives, etc., as tools with never a thought of using a knife as a weapon. The idea that a person can be criminalised over a thing they own, rather than for an act they committed, is a little scary.

I was reading the NAS NRC NAP 2004 on gun buy back programs where they pointed out that in any given year murder represented 1 of 10,000 handguns; yet most gun laws (especially the rabid Wacoize-gunowners-under-Ruby-Ridge-Rules-of-Engagement variety) treat all gunowners as potential murderers deserving summary execution. The knife laws are just as bad or worse. I got a folding "buck" style knife and a close look at the handle shows I use it frequently as a hammer, and an analysis of the blade would show paper or tomato residue, and no human blood.
 
Wow, Crazy law.
What's the point?
Is there a big sign on the outskirts of town that announces the ban on exposed clips?
Must be more then a few tourist blades that have fallen into the wrong hands....
 
I'd be tempted to hand carve a small sign that says Eff Off! and attach a knife clip to it for daily carry......
"Can I see what you have there in your pocket sir?"
"Why yes you can officer".....
 
Not trying to start a flame war ~ but one thing I do not do is travel to areas behind the "Iron Curtain." Their are parts of this country where the liberal progressives have furthered their agenda to the point the rest of us have little freedoms left. Good reason to vote this fall... back to my original point ~ there are places I won't visit, and places I would move from if I lived there. If one does decide to travel in these parts and you want to exercise your 2nd Amendment Rights or carry your knife, expect to be persecuted and prosecuted. These folks don't think like the rest of us.
 
Mr. O, when is your court date? I am curious as to how you'll make out....

I had the same exact thing happen to me this past weekend. Walking to Grand Central to catch the train home to CT, and got stopped on the sidewalk by an officer. He seemed very young, no stripes on his uniform and was nervous throughout the ordeal (he was being ordered around by a superior, a lieutenant i think) I only had the clip showing he asked me what it was and i said a knife, i took it out and gave it to him.

He asked why I had it and I explained that I am a telecom technician and use it while at work, its part of my everyday carry, something you don't think about, it even had a wire cutter built into it, and the blade was under the 4" rule, with it being 3.5"

He gave me the rundown that this could be considered a gravity knife, although he had to use excessive force and the thrust of his arm to open it that way, that he could arrest me right now and I was lucky i wasn't in cuffs.

My summons reads: For carrying in public view any knife, as well as on the bottom he wrote "refused" that i acknowledged the charge however i was overly cooperative he never even asked me!

I've only been to NY about a half dozen times in my lifetime (only 22 now). I never get hassled in CT for this, it just sucks I have to go back in August, buy tickets for the train and lose a day of work. I feel your pain Ouchie!!!
 
PRM:
Not trying to start a flame war ~ but one thing I do not do is travel to areas behind the "Iron Curtain." Their are parts of this country where the liberal progressives have furthered their agenda to the point the rest of us have little freedoms left. Good reason to vote this fall... back to my original point ~ there are places I won't visit, and places I would move from if I lived there. If one does decide to travel in these parts and you want to exercise your 2nd Amendment Rights or carry your knife, expect to be persecuted and prosecuted. These folks don't think like the rest of us.
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That is a nice rant and all, but would be more effective if it hadn't been signed into law under Michael Bloomberg and company. Next you be blaming Reagan for all the antigun ownership laws just because of what he did in California as Governor and signing the 86 GCA, and his lobbying for the Brady act. In other words it pointless partisan bickering and really has no point being in this thread.
 
You missed my point ~ I don't go to places where the freedoms I enjoy are infringed. You are right it is the law in that location. Don't like it - VOTE if you live there, or if you don't, stay away. I look into what laws are applicable in an area before I travel, and my choice is to avoid those parts of the country. As historically neat as NYC is, and I am sure there are a lot of good folks there - I doubt if I will ever have a desire to go there. No bickering intended.
 
Okay, I've been following this thread a while now, and most folks are ignoring the main issue.

It's illeagal in NYC to carry a clipped knife in open view. The cops are gonna hassle you over it, and you may even get charged for something, no matter how ridiculous it may be in another part of the country.

BUT...

That's the point; you ain't back in Kansas Toto, you're in their town, and you go by their rules. Very simple.

This has been an issue raised on the internet so often, that unless you've living in a cave, it's common knowledge. Go to NYC, take the clip off and drop the thing in your pocket. As much as a shock it may be to the younger generation raised on the modern tactical knife, there was once upon a time people carried a knife by just dropping it in the pocket where it disappeared from sight. Holy cow, imagine that!

The wife and I go to NYC about once a month, sometimes more. Great museums, shows, ethnic food of every type. Been doing that for over 20 years, and never had any kind of problem. But then I'm old school, I freely admit that. I drop a knife in my pocket. A simple Opinel, a Gerber LST, some kind of lightweight lockblade. No problemo. But then it's their town, and I go by their rules. If you don't to go along with the law, expect some eager beaver cop to nail ya.

Or stay out of their town. Have some of you never heard the old saying; "When in Rome..."
 
You should bring this law to court and show it to the judge:

"d. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this section shall not
apply to (1) persons in the military service of the state of New York
when duly authorized to carry or display knives pursuant to regulations
issued by the chief of staff to the governor; (2) police officers and
peace officers as defined in the criminal procedure law; (3)
participants in special events when authorized by the police
commissioner; (4) persons in the military or other service of the United
States, in pursuit of official duty authorized by federal law; (5)
emergency medical technicians or voluntary or paid ambulance drivers
while engaged in the performance of their duties; or (6) any person
displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this
section when such knife (a) is being used for or transported immediately
to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping,
hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily
requiring the use of such knife; or (b) is displayed or carried by a
member of a theatrical group, drill team, military or para-military unit
or veterans organization, to, from, or during a meeting, parade or other
performance or practice for such event, which customarily requires the
carrying of such knife; or (c) is being transported directly to or from
a place of purchase, sharpening or repair, packaged in such a manner as
not to allow easy access to such knife while it is transported; or (d)
is displayed or carried by a duly enrolled member of the Boy or Girl
Scouts of America or a similar organization or society and such display
or possession is necessary to participate in the activities of such
organization or society."

If you read it carefully, you are NOT IN VIOLATION of the Administrative code. Section "6) any person displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this section when such knife (a) is being used for or transported immediately to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife"

applies since you were transporting the knife from a place of "employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife".

The judge should dismiss the charge on the spot. If he doesn't, he's a liar in a robe. You should appeal and you WILL win.

Good Luck
 
I was tempted to get one of those HK branded knives a while back, and after doing research on the knife laws in NY, ended up with a 2.6" leatherman that also has some screwdrivers and a bottle opener on it. There's too much at stake to risk anything less conservative here.
 
Police have way too much leeway in interpretation of stupid and good laws. And from what I have heard and read, mostly it is us the law abiding public who get screwed with something like this.
 
According to what I've been reading it's a violation, not a criminal offense. However, if the cop had wanted to, he could have arrested me for having a 'gravity knife', which is a much more serious thing.
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Per Section 2 of the New York State Penal Law, a crime is either a felony or a misdomeanor. Infractions and violations are not crimes, but they can still be troublesome later on (ie. Impaired Driving (NYVTL 1192.1) is an infraction but people who are found/plead guilty still have adverse affects later- ie. insurance premiums, and in at least one case, a CT resident who's charges were reduced and to 1192.1 [from 1192.2 (DUI), prior to initial appearance] still had to answer for it when he attempted to get a pistol permit here in CT. )

Because the knife opened by centrifugial force, which case law accepts as flipping open the blade (holding the handle) or handle (holding the blade)- you could have been charged with 4th Degree Criminal Possession of a Weapon (NYPL 265.01), which is an A Misdomeanor. If you have a previous criminal record, you could have a been charged with 3d. degree CPW- which is a violent class D felony. The judicial interpretation of the penal law section is applicable statewide- not just in the city- though it is most often enforced there, and in surrounding counties...except when it is tacked on to another charge (the way things used to be in NYC).

It's a bad idea to carry any lock knife in NYC. I would recommend carrying a slip joint in the future.

The Penal Law does allow an individual with a hunting, fishing, or trapping license to possess (including carry) a switchblade or gravity knife for hunting, fishing, or trapping purposes.

Knife violations (visible carry and CPW) are very frequently prosecuted in NYC- moreso than anywhere else in the state.
 
It is the NYC Administrative Code, not the NYS Penal Law. It is not a crime is it local NYC code, a Violation of such. Not a Misdemeanor or Felony. Does not carry any criminal penalty or stigma.
 
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