NYC cops took my knife...

[Mr. Ouchie]

vance788 - wow, that sounds almost exactly what happened to me, besides the "refused" thing. My date is at the end of July, but they said I can go anytime before that, which I am planning to do. I'll let you know what happens. I can't justify having the knife for work, but since you can maybe you can make a case.

hoodfu - I totally agree.

Doesn't matter if it's not in view or not, if you get stopped for any reason and they have reason to find it, you can be utterly screwed depending on the cop's mood. Worth the risk? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm going with not from now on, personally.

 

[vance788]

Really Mr. O? I may call the clerk at the NYC office and see if I could go earlier as well, having this over my head for the next month and a half is really a bummer.

Good luck with your case this just really sucks!

let our experiences be warning for you all!

 

[Mr. Ouchie]

They said I could go on any day as long as I was there at 2pm. Sounded a little odd, but I'll find out for sure soon...

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Prayers for you Mr Ouchie and good luck!

 

[CathyGo]

He gave me the rundown that this could be considered a gravity knife, although he had to use excessive force and the thrust of his arm to open it that way, that he could arrest me right now and I was lucky i wasn't in cuffs.

My summons reads: For carrying in public view any knife, as well as on the bottom he wrote "refused" that i acknowledged the charge however i was overly cooperative he never even asked me!

Extremely unprofessional in the first paragraph. I would file a complaint with the department. A professional LEO does not need to make petty threats to make their point. Unless you're some gang banger giving me attitude I will speak to you with the same respect and courtesy as I would my colleagues. The second part is what really concerns me. When you go to court be absolutely clear that you were never even ASKED to sign the citation. As a member of law enforcement myself I can tell you that I never would just "fill in the blanks" based on how I "think" a situation is headed. Most people are smart enough to just sign and fight it in court.

For the both of you "I carry it as part of my daily wear and was not aware of the law until informed by Officer PITA" may be enough to get it dismissed. May not. Lawyers can only help you for so much. Both of you DID actually commit the offense. Stupid law but you still broke it. Go into court with a clean shave and a professional appearance and the judge might decide to exercise some common sense.

I work on a federal installation that is more at ease with knives than a PUBLIC city. That's just ridiculous.

As far as getting your knives back: Both of you should have received some kind of receipt for your property. If you didn't you're probably SOL and I'd be asking some hard questions as to why you didn't. The knives themselves are not illegal, just the way you were carrying them. Federal policing works different than civilian policing but even in the case of idiots bringing unregistered handguns on post they have eventually gotten them back once they ironed out their paperwork(in triplicate) and jumped through the appropriate number of hoops. You'd need to talk with a lawyer for anything else on that. I only know our way of doing things.

 

[CathyGo]

quick search brought me to this Judges opinion. This came out in 2007.

http://www.republicanoperative.com/...fe-not-gravity-knife-rules-federal-court.html

Judge Weinstein agreed. Here is some of the key language from his opinion.

"The prevalence of this instrument and its everyday use by law abiding mechanics makes unreasonable
any inference of illegal activity drawn merely from the observation of such an instrument clipped in an
individual's pocket.”

"Carrying a Husky is not a suspicious act that alone gives rise to reasonable suspicion of criminal
activity. The instrument which defendant had in his possession is a common tool. Its open possession
is the equivalent of a carpenter carrying a hammer or an individual in the street carrying a cellular phone.
The law cannot define as criminals tens of thousands of mechanics who are required to carry such tools
in order to earn a living. Claw hammers, used by carpenters, can be used to smash skulls,
screwdrivers, used by electricians, can be used to stab bodies and wall board cutters can be used to cut
jugular veins, but those are not the intended or designed for uses of such instruments."

 

[vance788]

Looks like this issue is escalating....this was sent to me by a friend

http://www.akti.org/news/akti-outrage-extortion-knife-retailers-by-manhattan-da-office

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I carry a S&W SWAT folder and if I'm going someplace where I might get in trouble I just discretely lift it up enough to unclip it and then drop it in my pocket.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

That sort of s** wouldn't fly here in Wyoming for 15 minutes. I can guarann-damn -tee you that. Why don't you get a lawyer and fight back? I would. If it took me the next 25 years to get that lawyer paid off By God I would fight. I'd take it all the way to the US Supreme Court (such as it is nowadays). Plus I'd be suing the hell out of everybody. Them, the whole department, the city, all of them and everything. That lawyer and I would find some kind of grounds, you can believe that. Plus it would be all over Fox News and any other place I could get it. What are you planning on doing if they come ask for your firearm? Let them have it and then just sit around and bitch about it and bow your head and go along with it?....

 

[xcgates]

Not to bring up an old point, but I lived in NY for about 10 years, 4 of which were spent in the true north part of the state (rest in the Rochester area), during which period I went to NYC less than 5 times, each time for a short, specific event. I carried the same folder the entire time, unaware that simply showing the clip portion would be enough for a cop to stop me.

Now I live in TX. I carry two folders every day, along with a flashlight. Hell, I even forgot about them when I went into a 6 Flags the other day in Georgia, and saw the metal detectors. I merely dropped the obvious folder into my pocket, commented how I had a relatively large metal flashlight that would set off the detector, walked through, set it off, showed my flashlight, and continued.

In short, I probably won't go to any more amusement parks unless others really want to go, and I most likely will never set foot in NY again, except to pick up the last of my things that i left at my parents' house. Who, by the way, are also moving out of NYS.

Get A Lawyer. Talk amongst your peers, your friends, help spread a common-sense atmosphere. Every time someone is shocked by every day carry of a pocket knife is a time to educate someone.

If asked why I moved, many assume it was the weather, and I point out why. Specifically pointing out that it was NOT due to the weather, a misguided notion that many in NY cling to.

::EDIT:: Another event was my friend at a fair (not big city, not rural, but somewhere in between) actually had a cop reach into his pocket and take his knife without any warning. As in all of a sudden my friend just felt a hand taking his knife. In the end the knife was removed, probably because my friend is among the most level-headed people I know. But along with that, I know several people who have instincts that result in anyone pulling anything like that on them experiencing a large amount of pain in their wrists, and possibly other parts of their body, as victim defends themselves. I seriously hope the cop that did that never does that again, as one day they will try that on someone who will defend themselves.

 

[grizz13]

I wonder if the gravity knife issue could be argued because it isn't actually the centrifugal force that opens the knife. The law states that to be a gravity knife it has to open due to gravity and or centrifugal force.

In the knives being discussed in this thread it isn't centrifugal force that is being used to open the knife, it is the momentum of the knife blade that opens it. They assume that because it happens to travel in a circular path that the force opening it is centrifugal.

It's harder to explain than i thought it would be but by the law that is posted and the laws of physics none of these knives are actually gravity knives.

 

[JustinCglass]

This was the knife in question:
http://www.themartialist.com/beretta.htm

that seems like a useful tool, i have a crkt that has more "evil" features than that.
maybe some lawyer got mugged by a criminal that used a folding knife. it flicked out like that knife and now thinks only criminals purchase said knife. he or she thinks they can sleep easier with extreme laws,

five bucks say he stole it from you.
good cop get bad names from [jerks] like that

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" Benjamin Franklin

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Not to bring up an old point, but I lived in NY for about 10 years, 4 of which were spent in the true north part of the state (rest in the Rochester area), during which period I went to NYC less than 5 times, each time for a short, specific event. I carried the same folder the entire time, unaware that simply showing the clip portion would be enough for a cop to stop me.

Now I live in TX. I carry two folders every day, along with a flashlight. Hell, I even forgot about them when I went into a 6 Flags the other day in Georgia, and saw the metal detectors. I merely dropped the obvious folder into my pocket, commented how I had a relatively large metal flashlight that would set off the detector, walked through, set it off, showed my flashlight, and continued.

In short, I probably won't go to any more amusement parks unless others really want to go, and I most likely will never set foot in NY again, except to pick up the last of my things that i left at my parents' house. Who, by the way, are also moving out of NYS.

Get A Lawyer. Talk amongst your peers, your friends, help spread a common-sense atmosphere. Every time someone is shocked by every day carry of a pocket knife is a time to educate someone.

If asked why I moved, many assume it was the weather, and I point out why. Specifically pointing out that it was NOT due to the weather, a misguided notion that many in NY cling to.

::EDIT:: Another event was my friend at a fair (not big city, not rural, but somewhere in between) actually had a cop reach into his pocket and take his knife without any warning. As in all of a sudden my friend just felt a hand taking his knife. In the end the knife was removed, probably because my friend is among the most level-headed people I know. But along with that, I know several people who have instincts that result in anyone pulling anything like that on them experiencing a large amount of pain in their wrists, and possibly other parts of their body, as victim defends themselves. I seriously hope the cop that did that never does that again, as one day they will try that on someone who will defend themselves.

Sad and when some one does defend themselves the Thin Blue Line will come out in force in the LEO's Defense. I am waiting for the Day when LEO's wake up and police themselves and stop putting up with bad behavior just because they are a Brother with a badge.

Welcome to Texas

 

[xcgates]

Hey I know I complain, and yes, there was plenty to complain about in NY, but there were/are plenty of good cops. The problem is that it doesn't take but one bad apple to ruin a heck of a lot.

I'm still glad I out of NY, though.

 

[918v]

For those of you calling the OP to get a lawyer, consider he is not being charged with a crime. Why would anyone in their right mind pay a lawyer thousands of dollars to rescue a $20 kinife?

Pay the fine and don't do it again.

For those of you who think this was an illegal search/seizure or that the knife was not exposed within the meaning of the law:



The photo clearly shows a knife handle attached to the clip. There is no difference between this and a knife in a sheath. The OP voluntarily removed the knife from his pocket. This was a consensual contact.

 

[Mr. Ouchie]

Hey that's it exactly. Except for the awful pants color.

The cops around here are also ticketing people for riding their bikes on the sidewalk, while drug deals are going on across the street. And then there's the stop and frisk stuff...

 

[stchman]

This whole thread is enough reason to never go to NYC. NYC might be the crime capital of the US, but the cops hassle a guy with a small pocket knife.

Probably because hassling the guy with a pocket knife is far less dangerous than chasing criminals.

 

[hso]

NYC might be the crime capital of the US

It isn't. It's waaayyyyy down the list. Cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta and Kansas City are far more dangerous. New York isn't even in the top (bottom?) twenty for violent crime.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"This whole thread is enough reason to never go to NYC. NYC might be the crime capital of the US, but the cops hassle a guy with a small pocket knife."

Actually, St Louis Mo. and Kansass City are more of a crime capital than NYC. Having been a long time visitor to NYC, and going there once a month for the museums, art gallerys, and out of this world food, I've never had one single problem in 20 years of visiting the place.

You should get out more.

 

[SleazyRider]

I'm in the City once or twice a week for myriad reasons. Rudy Guiliani cleaned up the City many years ago, and since then it's been a great place to visit, live, and work---and I've done all 3.

NYC is a clean, safe, friendly city, where you can bring your family and have a wonderful time in Central Park, South Street Seaport, any of the museums, Chinatown, Little Italy, or elsewhere. The restaurants are second to none, theatres and entertainment legendary, and its people are friendly and helpful. There is a certain vibrancy and energy to the City that is compelling, to say the least. This is the reality for most of us who know the City, but not for everybody. With 13 million people aboard, there's always going to be a certain percentage of problems. But to characterize The Big Apple in any other way is simply misleading. You are depriving yourself and your family of a wonderful experience if you avoid NYC because of a negative experience you've heard or read about, or possibly seen on the silver screen.

It's not a matter of "home pride" for me, it's a simple matter of truth versus fiction.

 

[stchman]

I have been to many cities (NYC, Chi, LA, Stl, KC, Nashville) and have never been mugged, beaten, etc. That does not make all the cities I have visited "safe".

I have lived in STL for years and walked around the city after the ball game at night with no problem.

Just because a person has been to a city many times and had no problems does not make it a utopia safe city.

All major cities can be dangerous, fact of life.

I simply do not wish to visit LA, NYC, Chi, as they have passed ridiculous legislation against honest gun owners.

 

[hso]

Just because a person has been to a city many times and had no problems does not make it a utopia safe city.

Very true, it's the compiled statistics reported in sources like the FBI's Uniform Crime Report that tell the truth of the situation instead of people's prejudices.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"The Congressional Quarterly Press has released it’s most dangerous city list for 2008 and New Orleans has taken the lead. Last year Detroit was the leader of the pack, but now New Orleans is the most dangerous city.

Camden, New Jersey is second followed by Detroit, St. Louis, and Oakland. Camden had the lead in 2006 so they are climbing the charts again.

Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities in America 2008

1.New Orleans
2.Camden, NJ
3.Detroit
4.St. Louis
5.Oakland
6.Flint, Mich.
7.Gary, Ind.
8.Birmingham, Ala.
9.Richmond, Calif.
10.North Charleston, SC"

The cities you name didn't even make the list.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I have been to NO 2 times and Birmingham Alabama once and I had no issues at all.


As NY city goes I remember a line from a Hank Jr song " You can send me to Hades or NY city it would be about the same to me. "

 

[Leadhead]

I've lost track in this thread.... but is it ok to have a knife in your pocket in New York as long as it isn't clipped and showing?