Obsolete Cartridges

[MMCSRET]

I also cast, load and shoot 43 Spanish. I also form and load 6X47 International Match for my 14" Contender. I load and shoot 32 Long and Short COLT (not S&W), 32 Short Colt is sometimes available, 32 Long Colt is achieving collector/cult status.

 

[lizziedog1]

Another Ruger

So does Ruger. It's not dead yet.

Awhile back a local gun shop had a Ruger Bolt Action in .358 Winchester. It was brand new. I know this round is not quite obsolete, but darn close.

 

[natman]

Awhile back a local gun shop had a Ruger Bolt Action in .358 Winchester. It was brand new. I know this round is not quite obsolete, but darn close.

Browning is still making the BLR in 358 as well. Great round.

 

[speedreed]

I've got a Model 1905 Winchester (looks just like the M1907 picture sansone posted) in .32 Self-Loading. I got ammo from Stars and Stripes Custom Ammunition in Largo, FL.

 

[HiVelocity]

Not a collector......

Trivia time......

Someone tell me what this went into, please.

I found it in an old box from a friend who passed away.

Its a 41 Short Centerfire.

HV:banghead:

 

[Offfhand]

Reloading some of the obsolete calibers can be a challenge, but also very rewarding. Especially when they turn out to be surprisingly accurate. Attached are a couple of quickie photos of my .30 Newton. Some of the rifle's features are quite advanced, even by today's standards, and the cartridge is a solid performer.

 

[captain awesome]

i seem to have a draw to cartridges that are less common as well. Got a marlin lever action in 450 marlin, wouldn't be surprised if factory loadings disappear for that one. Same thing with my 480 ruger. I also wonder about the future off the 41 magnum, and 50ae. they seem to each have a cult following so who knows, but i like the stuff you don't see every day. I also want a rifle in .30-378 Weatherby Magnum.

 

[mudriver]

I enjoy loading different calibers and currently load 30 luger, 8x56r.

Hope to soon load 7.7 Jap and 7.35 Carcano and 8 mm Nambu

 

[JR47]

We shoot 8x56R Steyr, 7.62x38R Nagant, .32 S&W, .38 S&W, 7x57, 9mm Largo, and .30 Mauser, all in original guns. Luckily, I bought the ammo in case lots years ago. Anyone remember 7.62x38R from Century for $4.99/16 round boxes?

 

[GCBurner]

Trivia time......

Someone tell me what this went into, please.

I found it in an old box from a friend who passed away.

Its a 41 Short Centerfire.

HV:banghead:

The .41 Short was for the Remington double-barrel derringer, various Colt single shot derringers, and a few types of pocket revolvers by various makers,

 

[bonza]

I may be mistaken, but I thought the Remington .41 O/U Deringers were all rimfire.

 

[wundudnee]

Winchester model 43 in .218bee. A couple of years ago I saw some new ammunition at Cabela's for $62.00 a box. That was before ammo went up so high.

 

[Otony]

"I may be mistaken, but I thought the Remington .41 O/U Deringers were all rimfire."

You are not mistaken, the Remingtons were absolutely rimfire .41s.

Now I may be mistaken, but I believe the .41 Short Centerfire was for the old Colt Cloverleaf revolvers.

 

[groo]

there is something cool about the old stuff, but all these new oddballs....piss me off a little bit. I like interchangeability. If you come out with a new caliber, it better do something significantly better than one of the more common ones.

look at the current AR mess, there are probably a half dozen medium bores and as many thumpers. If they could decide on one of each, both markets might take off, but as it is too many fear getting Beta'd.

 

[deadin]

Here's my latest attempt to make some cartridges for an old target pistol.
The gun is a high grade Belgian from around the 1880-1900 or so. All I had to go on was a chamber cast and I slugged the barrel. The twist rate indicated it was for a very short bullet, possibly round ball, so that was what I am going with. The closest cartridge I could find a reference for was the European .450 Long, which, ASFAIK, is unavailable. So, the closest basic brass I could find was .45 Long Colt. Had to shorten and thin the case walls a little, thin the rim (from the front and take just a smidgin off the head diameter. The bore slugged to .443 and I found some round balls from TOTW. I've made up 20 cartridges loaded with 19grs. FFF under a card and lubed wad with the RB thumb seated.
Hope to fire it sometime this week.


Probably the most difficult "build" is shown below. It was for a Providence Tool Works Martini I had at one time. The problem was that there really wasn't any case that came close to the head and rim diameter. I ended up starting with a .348 Win., thinned the rim from the front, swagged a brass washer onto the head and turned it to the right diameter and thickness. The head diameter was increased by using a sleeve which had to have an internal taper to the front so the .348 could be fire-formed out to the proper shoulder.
You can see where the problems arose..... Unless the taper was really feathered, firing tended to cut the case at the seam. I believe I made up around 10 cases and of those about half survived the fire-forming and of the few survivors only a couple made it through actual firing.
At least I can say I shot the d... thing!

 

[jkingrph]

I've been casually looking for the right .32-20 rifle. That's probably the most obscure caliber I own.

Mine is a Marlin CL. I found it at Gander Mountain about 2 years ago. Price was a bit high but I grabbed it anyway. It's a fun little rifle.

 

[jkingrph]

jkingrph - I have an old revolver in .32-20 that was my dad's. I have only been able to find a couple of sources of factory loads and they are running over $30 per 50!
Have you found better prices?
These are 100 grain lead flat points and, from what I've read, the ballistics aren't very good.

JTHunter, that sounds like a real good price for factory ammo. The best I have found was some "custom reloads" using new brass at a gun show for about $25 per box of 50.
When I called a local gunshop for prices it was over $50 for Remington ammo.

We had a local family owned variety store, with a big gun dept that lost their FFL, so that started down and I picked up a few boxes very cheap there, otherwise I ordered a thousand cases so I would have a good supply and just roll my own. Actually because of the cost factor I reload or rather buy new brass and start from scratch and just load my own.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hmmm . . .

I have a .22 Hornet, which might fit this category, plus a .35 Brown-Whelen which is really a wildcat.

 

[Radagast]

JTHunter:
Old Western Scrounger sells a 121 grain 32-20 round.
http://ows-ammo.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58_21&products_id=150

Black Hills ammo also make a 115 grain round.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=146138

No manufacturer will load these rounds to their full potential due to the large number of Spanish made revolvers imported in the early part of the last century that were basically made from cast iron.

Even quality revolvers such as the S&W .32-20 Hand Ejector were often damaged when rifle only jacketed .32-20 Hi-Speed ammo was fired through them. The jackets would strip off in the barrel and a subsequent round fired into the obstruction would bulge the barrel.

If you do want a faster round and have a gun strong enough to handle it then you will need to handload.

 

[daveyj65]

try cherrys fine guns there in greensboro nc and have a great show case of old and odd callibers. My first gun i bought there was a 25/20 then a 32/20 pistol and carbine set

 

[kentucky bucky]

My most obsolete by far is my Snider Enfield saddle carbine which shoots the
.577 Snider. The original Sniders were conversions from the Enfield Rifled Musket and later were manufactured in this pattern. They Originally shot rounds with iron bases with brass foil wrapped around them. The bullet was the English version of the minnie ball with a wood expander plug in the base, so even in the cartridges, the bullets were sub-boresize. This made for terrilble accuracy and extraction problems due to foil separation. In the past decade or so some fellows developed bore sized bullets for them which makes them better shooters. There are also now several different companies that make useable .577 basic brass. I was able to get in on a special order for bore sized bullet mouilds and Lee dies for same. I brought the gun back from England in 1992 and it took forever to get enough stuff and info together to shoot it. The first week I had internet I learned more in 1 day than all the years before. It is fun to shoot though! lots of smoke and flames!

 

[CZguy]

kentucky bucky,

We need pics.........please.

 

[FredT]

Does anyone here enjoy collecting and shooting rifles chambered for obsolete, or near obsolete rounds? I like shooting guns chambered for the "oddball" rounds. I know it is a pain to get ammo even though I reload. I just like shooting something different then what everyone else does.

Cartridges Of The World is one of my favorite gun reference books. I'll thumb through it and see some obsolete round and wonder if there is a way to get a gun for it. I realy want a rifle chmabered for the .25-20 Winchester.

For example, I have a rifle chambered in 6.5mm Carcano. Ammo for a 7mm Mauser would be much easier to get, but there is something almost romantic about shooting such an old round.

Who else collects guns for cartridges that you need to reload for?

I too like the .25-20. Here is my lot.

 

[JTHunter]

Thanks for the info Radagast.
That's similar to the prices I've seen over the past 2 years. Unfortunately, a gunsmith warned me to be very careful the ammo I buy as some is meant for a rifle and hunting while some is meant for the revolver. I showed him what I found about the 115 gr. ammo but he advised me to shoot nothing heavier than 100 gr. loads.
He looked it up in his "Blue Book" and, if I had the original box, he said it would have been classed as "98%+" as only a tiny bit of the bluing is gone from the barrel tip and the edges of the cylinder. He said that this was from putting it in this stiff leather holster my Dad had it in for years.

 

[Owen Sparks]

There used to be rimfire cartridges made for all sorts of different rounds larger that .22. I have a few in .25 Stevens, .32, .41 and .44 rimfire. I suppose anyone with one of those guns is just out of luck.