Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by X-Rap, Jul 17, 2016.
Should Kasich declare an emergency and suspend Open Carry in Cleveland?
Under what reason could he legally suspend open carry?
Does he even have the authority to?
Frankly I'm a supporter so I'm inclined to say no but the stakes just got raised again this afternoon. Lots of cops and talking heads pleading for him to do it, doubtful that the convention will pass without some violent uprising from one of the many protest groups.
Things go south there and it will be a setback to the cause.
Beyond all that there is the legal aspect, I suspect Obama and the Justice Dept. to be fully in favor and supportive regardless. The precedent would be horrible even if there were a later decision by a court.
Yea, if open carry had been illegal the thugs would never have dreamed of setting a ambush and murdering cops right?
Dudenals, it's an issue of what state law allows or doesn't allow. Federal law has nothing to do with it.
Ohio weapons-law provides zero authority for the governor, county comm'rs, or mayors to suspend firearms carry-rights and rules set forth in the statute.
My take: law-abiding citizens (LACs) who choose to carry - concealed or openly - in Cleveland during the convention won't be the problem.
In Dallas, there were several openly-armed protesters exercising their 1A-rights who, amazingly, killed no one. No doubt too there were more than a few protesters carrying fully concealed. When that bad guy-wacko starting firing, a few of these same open-carry law-abiding protesters immediately surrendered their firearms to the nearest cop, for the obvious reason to avoid being mistakenly shot by all the other cops rushing around.
Assuming the exercise of first and second amendment rights will necessarily conflict only diminishes the exercise of both sets of rights, or plays one off against the other.
Suspending constitutional rights in dicey situations is never the answer; all it does is set the needed precedent to make it easier to do it again in non-dicey situations, ... or wherever President Hill-Bama deems it necessary.
This stems from the the Cleveland Police Union asking the governor to suspend open carry in Ohio because of the Baton Rouge incident.
From Fox 19 Cincinnati news
"Ohio Gov. http://www.fox19.com/story/32464208/ohio-governor-no-authority-to-revoke-open-carry-gun-law
John Kasich (KAY'-sihk) says he doesn't have authority to suspend the state's law allowing people to openly carry guns.
Kasich responded Sunday to a request by the Cleveland police union president for the suspension of the law during the Republican National Convention, which begins Monday.
The request by union president Steve Loomis followed Sunday morning's fatal shooting of three police officers in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Kasich says Ohio governors don't have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or laws."
There you have it, he doesn't have the authority....
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
Given recent events, I wouldn't be open carrying near the convention. That just opens you up to heavy police scrutiny. At a recent news conference in Ohio, it was stated that police will have a hostile attitude toward open carrier's.
Have a link to that statement? Were they admitting to plans to harass citizens that are breaking no law?
-- edit to OP, No he should not. If he thinks it is an issue he should spell out his reasoning and make a request. He should not force people to disarm.
No, but at the convention they MIGHT make you unload it and 'band' it, with plastic lock strips, like at gun shows.
In the old days the Sheriff would deputize citizens when he needed more help.
The New Black Panthers have announced they will be armed. Isn't this the "Fry 'em like bacon" group?
Meanwhile a group called Bikers for Trump are also coming, they made a point of saying not to be violent but to help keep things safe. Which to me says they might also be carrying. They say LE and ex-military are the majority of their members.
I feel so sorry for the Cleveland police.
I am with Ben Franklin. All the Way.
That sounds just a little too much like the Altamont festival...
What about the Dem convention in Philly?
I just briefly checked PA law and they honor carry permits from quite a long list of other states, and in Philadelphia a person with a valid concealed carry permit can also carry openly. So are the same issues going to arise at the Dem convention?
The convention per se will be a gun-free zone. A private business like the arena can declare itself such.
link to article about Cleveland PD request
One specific point, they want all officers deployed in groups and with a car. No lone officers on foot.
Sheriff Arpaio still uses a posse.
The head of the Cleveland police union has asked the governor to suspend open carry. The governor, as previously stated, has said he does not have that authority.
Here's a quote from a NY Times article about it. I am not an advocate of open carry, however I do not condone suspending civil liberties either. The paper quotes him as saying he doesn't care if it's constitutional. So much for his swearing an oath to support the constitution of the United States and the state of Ohio.
"On Sunday afternoon, Stephen Loomis, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, said that Mr. Kasich should temporarily suspend “open carry” for the sake of security. Mr. Loomis said in an interview with CNN that he did not care “if it’s constitutional or not.”
This is dangerous, if not treasonous thinking.
I agree that that was an exceedingly poor choice of language.
Same old stupid thinking from people in power. Stupid people think that if only the police and the bad guys get to carry guns then all is good......Go figure!
And an even poorer attitude towards citizen's civil liberties...
map of Cleveland showing gun-free zone area
The Wall Street Journal has an article on this topic that includes a map of Cleveland showing the exact area (the arena and a few blocks around it) that the Secret Service has declared a temporary gun-free zone:
I think he's just very concerned about his officers' safety after what happened in Baton Rouge. And I feel for him. But he should have just said that and not said he doesn't care if it's constitutional.
Separate names with a comma.