Odd experience with gunsmith today... or am I being a crybaby ?

[jimmyraythomason]

Maybe he doesn't know what fixed it. Perhaps in inspecting it an unseen bit of trash falls out unnoticed. It just starts working right. He's not about to tell you he doesn't know so he becomes very "ancient Chinese secret"(old TV commercial) about it.

 

[danprkr]

I fix stuff for a living. Not guns, but appliances. I guarantee you that if I didn't tell my customers what I was fixing I wouldn't be in business much longer. Now sometimes I have to simplify the explanation, but I have to let them know what their money is going for. Should be no different with this 'gunsmith.' If he can't provide good service with a repair, and make you understand what he did then you should quit rewarding him with your money!

It's the free market, use it to your advantage. It's the best tool in the world to ensure credibility.

 

[sansone]

grumpy FFL's is the reason I got my own just find somebody more friendly

 

[A.H. Fox]

Actually, there is state law that requires that a mechanic explain the repair and what the cause was. Since you don't normally use your gun to get around town on public roads with other folks, the mechanical integrity/safety of your gun is irrelevant until you use it. So, is there any state law that requires the smith to explain his repair and the cause? That I do not know.

 

[ZCORR Jay]

I most likely would have been a bit irritated if I asked a question that could help take better care of my gun. Who knows if it was a long detailed explanation or he just didn't care to talk about it.

I'd want to know if I messed something up and if it can be prevented in the future.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

Wow... There is a lot of hostility floating around towards gunsmiths.

I would have asked him "How much extra for the lesson, dipstick"?

That's not likely to get a constructive response.

Maybe he was just busy that day and didn't feel like answering. Maybe it was something simple and he didn't feel like explaining for any number of reasons.

Long story short, you took him a malfunctioning gun and got it back in working order. You paid the tab and took your handgun home.

If you don't like the man's demeanor, don't go back. I don't know about where you are, but finding a truly competent gunsmith around here is a real challenge. There aren't any full-line smiths operating full-time in central Kentucky that I know of.

If I could find a good smith around here, I'd have a new friend and give him a lot of business. Even if he was a grouch, I'd most likely smile, listen, and go on being a customer.

In a gunsmith (or any other professional whose services I use) I'm looking for knowledge and competence. All other considerations are secondary, including personality.

I could put up with the devil himself for an hour or two to get my gun fixed without having to go through the bother of boxing it up and shipping it miles away to strangers.

KR

 

[Deanimator]

I'm a computer consultant.

Whenever I CAN, I tell my customers what was wrong, whether they were the cause, and if possible, how to avoid the problem in the future.

Anybody who WON'T do that, I wouldn't have anything to do with.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

I'm a computer consultant. Whenever I CAN, I tell my customers what was wrong, whether they were the cause, and if possible, how to avoid the problem in the future. Anybody who WON'T do that, I wouldn't have anything to do with.

Another thing that occurs to me is that perhaps the OP simply misread the gunsmith's manner. Maybe the guy was joking.

KR

 

[CoRoMo]

From time to time, I HAVE to deal with the "best gunsmith" in these parts. He is renowned for his skill and recommended anywhere and everywhere you go.

I simply cannot stand the guy. He's every bit the jerk that the OP has described. But everyone around here loves him, and he's backlogged with work a mile long. I suppose that he's the old-school talent that we're losing everyday, but good grief, he's one moody SOB and if he hates the type of gun you brought in, he'll turn you right around and you'll be leaving with said gun in hand.

 

[kingpin008]

Another thing that occurs to me is that perhaps the OP simply misread the gunsmith's manner. Maybe the guy was joking.

The OP asked the guy twice about his gun. He was given a snide non-answer both times. That's not joking, that's being a rectum.

 

[clem]

Additional;

If I pay YOU for a service, I have a right have my questions answered.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

The OP asked the guy twice about his gun. He was given a snide non-answer both times. That's not joking, that's being a rectum.

Okay. I won't argue the point. I'm in a distinct minority of opinion on this anyway.

I suppose I'm just surprised at the hostility some people have towards gunsmiths in general. I don't consider them sacred cows by any stretch, but a good one is a rare find, and I respect ability and competence above nearly every other quality in a person. So it is that I don't particularly mind putting up with moodiness or crankiness from a gunsmith.

I'm a reasonably handy gun mechanic and if something is botched badly enough that I can't fix it myself, I'm thrilled to have someone local who can fix it.

KR

 

[rbernie]

I suppose I'm just surprised at the hostility some people have toward gunsmiths in general.

In fairness, I didn't see much (some, but not much) hostility. What I saw, mostly, was a shared frustration over the notion of being expected to pay for something without being given any clue what was being paid for. As was stated earlier - you would never accept that kind of behavior for any other durable good, so why should you accept it here?

So it is that I don't particularly mind putting up with moodiness or crankiness from a gunsmith.

I value my local gunsmith relationships and I am a very strong advocate of keeping my money local and treating folk respectfully. That doesn't mean that they get to treat me with DISrespect because they possess training and tools that I do not.

Moodiness is fine. But that should not extend to the terms of the service contract itself, and the invoice is part of that. If the invoice doesn't tell me what was done, I'm probably not going to be coming back for another round.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Moodiness is fine. But that should not extend to the terms of the service contract itself, and the invoice is part of that. If the invoice doesn't tell me what was done, I'm probably not going to be coming back for another round

I take it just a hair further bernie, If the invoice does not tell me what was done, said contractor does not get paid! You want my money, tell me what the hell I am paying for and I will gladly hand it over for competent services rendered. "Bad attitude day? I can have just as bad an attitude as you can buddy but the question is, do you REALLY want to go there with a fella my size?" I treat others as they treat me in both my professional life as well as personal. I guess I try to expect the same treatment from others. I am not saying that that gunsmith should treat you like royalty, but a modicum of respect by answering your simple and WELL DESERVED question was definitely in order there.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I've spent some time, in my youth, with some very talented...and moody, gunsmiths and have found that the too often go hand-in-hand. I'll also add that most gunsmiths are not very good business people...the skills are almost polar opposites. I've never had a problem getting them to explain what they were doing to guns, but I did have to put up with some strange habits and rituals they had.

I'm just curious if the OP, or any others who have responed, would have been happy with a common response I've heard given by smiths when questioned about what they did to fix the problem:

What did you do to fix it?

I cleaned and aligned everything...this is just a bit less casual than the original "Oh,it was just out of whack" (which I have also heard as a serious answer)

What was the problem?

It was dirty and not aligned

The work order would read: Cleaned, Checked and Corrected Problem

Would anyone have been more satisfied?

 

[kingpin008]

I value my local gunsmith relationships and I am a very strong advocate of keeping my money local and treating folk respectfully. That doesn't mean that they get to treat me with DISrespect because they possess training and tools that I do not.

Moodiness is fine. But that should not extend to the terms of the service contract itself, and the invoice is part of that. If the invoice doesn't tell me what was done, I'm probably not going to be coming back for another round.

ALL of this. Perfectly put.

 

[CMC]

I am a gunsmith myself and have a minimum charge and I tell people up front, If it took 5 to 15 minutes to fix the problem, I will clean the gun for you if it is dirty.
If I cant fix it there is no charge.
If it takes 2 or 3 hours you will pay accordingly.
I dont do gun work for free ,some people here think that if you can fix it in five minutes it should be free of charge, what is that about? do you think you are entitled to free service , it takes me 5 minutes cause I know what I am doing, you may work on the problem for hours and mess something else up.
I give you a receit that explains what was fixed and go over it with you.
I have had to deal with some people that thought that my minimum charge ( 40 bucks 75 for machine work) was to much and took it somewhere else get charged for not fixing the problem and then come back to me to fix it.
I dont do lessons either but I am not rude to my customers either.
If you ask me detail on how to do it yourself I will be happy to help over the phone on were to find parts or tools.
Dont try to come see me and waste my time to help you fix it yourself it aint going to happen.

 

[rbernie]

The work order would read: Cleaned, Checked and Corrected Problem

Would anyone have been more satisfied?

I would not. I would expect something like:

-Cleaned
-Checked
-Aligned yoke
-Set endshake
-Function tested

That doesn't tell me HOW he did it (which is the secret sauce that he's trying to safeguard) but it does tell me WHAT he did. Anyone that's not willing to at least identify the work performed will not get my cash, even if they are the only gunsmith within a hundred miles.

 

[M-Cameron]

Maybe he was just busy that day and didn't feel like answering. Maybe it was something simple and he didn't feel like explaining for any number of reasons.

its not like hes explaining how a flux capacitor works....hes asking what work was done to his gun, that should take no longer than a minute or two


Long story short, you took him a malfunctioning gun and got it back in working order. You paid the tab and took your handgun home.

yeah, but if your paying $150 for "extensive repairs"....which turn out only to be a spraying with WD-40 and a smack with a hammer......ide be pretty damn upset.

...

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would not. I would expect something like:

-Cleaned
-Checked
-Aligned yoke
-Set endshake
-Function tested

That's what I would have expected too.

I've seen Cleaned, Checked and Corrected Problem entail everything from:
what you've listed...
to...
opening the sideplate, clean and lube, re-assemble, everything works just fine

I will say that the gunsmiths I have know might write a pretty generic work order, but they will explain it if you ask nicely

 

[9mmepiphany]

yeah, but if your paying $150 for "extensive repairs"....which turn out only to be a spraying with WD-40 and a smack with a hammer......ide be pretty damn upset.

Why?...the logic would be that you took it to a gunsmith because you didn't know where or how to smack it with a hammer.

I remember the first time I saw a gunsmith smack one of my guns, a pristine S&W M-34, with a hammer...i just wasn't prepared when I saw him preping the area with the Q-tip...but it did fix the issue it was having. What you are paying for is the training/experience it took to know the where and how

 

[PTK]

Most gunsmiths I've come across are like that. Don't let it bug you, they're a weird lot mostly! Even when going through gunsmithing courses in Colorado, I noticed that most everyone in the college was really... well mean spirited and tense. It's unfortunate, but seems to be the norm.

 

[RimfireChris]

I'd say the OP's question was perfectly valid. After all, if the malfunction was because of something you did, you'd wanna prevent that right? I can understand the frustration, I've walked outof a couple LGS/ smiths never too return. If I'm gonna drop some serious money in your shop, the least you can is not talk down to me.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'd say the OP's question was perfectly valid

I agree, but I think he set the tone with his response to the gunsmith's answer:

"so now it's back in whack?".

Regardless if he meant to or not, he was mocking the gunsmith

I might have responded, "How do I prevent it from happening again?" or "How do I keep it from going out of whack again?"...which would have given the gunsmith a chance to demonstrate his expertise/knowledge and would have likely provided the answer that the OP expected

 

[buck460XVR]

I agree, but I think he set the tone with his response to the gunsmith's answer:

Regardless if he meant to or not, he was mocking the gunsmith

yep....and add to this a relationship that was already under tension(as described by the OP as weirdness in several situations).

Let's face it...not everyone hits it off with everyone else. It sounds as these two have known each other for a while. Again, thru no fault or blame to either one, they may just rub each other the wrong way. Sometimes it just happens. Could be a personality clash or something someone said. Could be the OP reminds the gunsmith of his ex BIL. Could be nothing at all. I sense that the gunsmith's attitude was ''go away''. His rudeness, for one reason or another, may just have been his way of saying he doesn't want the OP's business anymore. I work with people everyday. Sometimes customers have an attitude or personality that just erks the 'ell outta me. Many always want something for nuttin' or just ain't happy till they they get "a deal", even after they agreed on a set price. I still do a first class job for a fair price for them, but sometimes I just don't care if I piss 'em off and they don't come back. Sure I need the money, but sometimes they ain't worth the grief. Sounds similar to the OP's statement........"I called him every week or two for a couple months, and finally asked *** ?? He basically told me it really just wasn't worth the time and effort,financially." Just because we work for people, don't mean they get to abuse us. Again, the OP may have done nuttin' wrong and the gunsmith may just be a big, but as I told the OP before, finding a new gunsmith would seem to make everyone happier.

It would be interesting to hear the gunsmith's side of the story......