Offer received from local dealer for gun collection.

[Old Dog]

Offers on items for sale can not be an insult, any more than a person's idea of what their item is worth is an insult to potential buyers.

You did note what the guy offered on our member's SAAs (the Colt and the USFSA) right? Maybe I'd give the guy on pass on his low-ball offers on the H&K, the FAL and the SIG, but sorry, his offers on those mint-condition Peacemakers were insulting. It has nothing to do with "looking to be offended." Sometimes, it is what it is, and something IS offensive.

 

[Ignition Override]

He appears to be a liar who could be taking gross advantage of every widow he can find. Unless I'm mistaken the few Prices I relate to (Sig P229, Imbel FAL etc) indicate that he's possibly a shameless low-life.

The one or two guns on the Spreadsheet which I've owned show me that he would 'drain' my sweet, innocent wife like a Vampire' if I lived there and suddenly died or became quickly incapacitated.

And many widows, after the grieving, still are not only struggling with ludicrous Medicare (and Part B) regulations, coordinating with drug stores + plus overworked medical office staff....

Many widows need every dollar they can find during this " Biden-Nomics" inflation.
My wife came Very close to being widowed in 2017 (....a 2nd time widow....), but what soon was shown to be my heart attack/infarction miraculously began, purely by chance, not far from a hospital while driving to meet friends,
and (2nd miracle) She answered her phone and suggested that I drive a few miles to the ER.

Such a generous gun buyer would have Scalped her with no regrets --- or Your wife, son/daughter etc.

 

[JohnKSa]

Maybe I'd give the guy on pass on his low-ball offers on the H&K, the FAL and the SIG, but sorry, his offers on those mint-condition Peacemakers were insulting. It has nothing to do with "looking to be offended." Sometimes, it is what it is, and something IS offensive.

I know that kind of reasoning is common, but it's just not right. Unless he's forcing the buyer to take his offer, his valuation of the firearms is nothing more than a number. It doesn't have any negative effect on the items for sale or for the buyer. It's not offensive at all. Again, someone can CHOOSE to be offended, but that's got nothing to do with an actual offense taking place. People who want to be offended can always find a reason.

The guy shouldn't talk about how he's special and takes care of his sellers, because his prices don't indicate that's what's happening. But that's a different issue.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Yes. Ultimately, if a person plans to pass on without liquidating their firearms; they would be wise (and kind) to make provisions for the survivors to help them deal with the situation. I got to help an acquaintance with his father's collection of hundreds of firearms. Figuring out what they were and getting rough values for them was a ton of work. Everyone would have been better off if the father had, at the very least, kept a list of what he had and would have been WAY better off if he had taken the time to maintain it with estimates of current value.

How did this get to be an issue of good and bad, fairness and unfairness? Neither the buyer or seller is under any obligation to the other; neither owes anything to the other; neither can force the other to make a deal. There is no requirement that they deal with each other at all. If they can't reach an agreement, everyone leaves in EXACTLY the same condition they came in. If the buyer is only willing to pay a dollar for a Korth and the seller is ok with that, which one of them is bad and which one is good? If they agree to the price, and low to the point of being immoral, how is one more to blame than the other?

Who gets to set the moral threshold/fairness criteria for profit on gun sales? Should it be a calculation including a dealer's operating expenses based on the business model he chooses? Do we get to tell him his business model is unacceptable because it requires profits that are too high? How deep do we get to dig into his personal life to determine what a moral profit level would be? Can we tell him he should have had fewer kids so he didn't have to worry about so much college expense so he could keep his profit at a more righteous level? Does the allowable profit margin change based on who he's buying from or on the seller's valuation of their firearms? How much should it change? Does who he buys from change his operating expenses or personal expenses? Does a seller get to justifiably feel righteous indignation only when the threshold is breached, or is a gradual increase of "insultedness" allowed as the profit margin approaches the threshold? How is all this going to be enforced and where will the morally acceptable profits be recorded for enforcement purposes? Will they be regularly adjusted based on inflation and other general financial considerations?

It's really simple. One person has guns and wants to sell them. Another person has money and wants to buy them. Agree on a price? DEAL. Disagree on a price? NO DEAL. Either way, there's no good or evil, there's no fair or unfair. It's only when someone is being coerced or has no choice that things become different.

I hope you and/or yours never gets taken advantage of due to ignorance or desperation

 

[JohnKSa]

What, do you think I wish anything different for anyone here? Seriously?

The point is that someone's offer is not an insult simply because the seller finds it "too low". It's just too low.

Coercing someone into selling or taking advantage of someone's desperation, is a different thing entirely.

As far as a buyer taking advantage of a seller's ignorance, "Seller beware" is just as real a thing as "Buyer beware." If someone doesn't take the time to find out what they are selling is worth, they are going to find that they are in the same situation as a buyer who buys something without knowing what it's worth. One is no different from the other.

 

[Old Dog]

Not to belabor any points here, but John, is there anything you do find insulting?

Say I have personal property. I know how much I paid for it. I know its current value on the marketplace. I put it up for sale. Someone offers me far under the current value for my property -- purposely, as they intend to maximize their profit when they resell the item, AND they believe I don't know any better and will likely accept their offer.

How is this not insulting? This has zero to do with "looking to be offended." Based on what I've read in this very forum over the past nineteen years, guys such as our OP are not the type to look for offense.

Spin it however you want, but you're looking to come across as trying to be pretty PC here.

 

[starling]

LOL, the thread is turning into an exercise in justification of shady opportunists. I like people here but Im going to disagree fairly firmly on this so.... Dont get "offended".

OK... I have $200. Anyone know someone desperate or a widow with a new Colt Python 4" let me know. If its a 6" Ill go $250. LOL

Sounds low on the surface but Im a great guy that cares about people and has "overhead". I will be on my yacht this weekend but you can reach me at I 800-GOT MINE or Sucks To Be You .com

Oh the Insult comment I made was a joke....Kinda. This FFL wastes people time though and that can go both ways. Karma is a thing sometimes. I would be interested to see what he bases his offers on because Home Based FFLs dont have a tremendous amount of "overhead". At the prices he is offering he could put them on consignment after buying at other FFLs and make out like gangbusters. Interesting little operation he has going on. I know a scam when I see one and yes ...scams are insulting to me. Thats a big reason I dont like politicians, the "they" that control them, their networks, or their thugs.

I understand people want to make money but Morals and Ethics are kind of a thing with me. I doubt this fella will be an FFL very long unless he is connected. Hes to greedy and short sighted. That tends to catch up with people either by word of mouth or reckless shortcut actions to make a quick buck.

I know our culture is largely saturated in the "I Got Mine" mentality. Thats how we have gotten to this point. However part of treating people right is not looking to take advantage of them all the time. This FFL is bad news and I wouldnt trust him. Hopefully the OPer didnt give him his address.

@silicosys4 look into some decent FFLs for consignment with real storefronts. That or put them on Gunbroker, Firearms forums etc. This FFL has already wasted your time putting together that spreadsheet and you loading up your firearms and taking them over to show him. You are clearly well organized and not lazy. No need to let some shady snake take advantage of you. Im surprised he didnt charge you a fee for his "appraisal" of your firearms. People like that are not worth your time and effort.

I Would take the USP and the Sig!..... but Honestly..... I dont want to. You can get more money from someone else and be better off in your journey to new home ownership. I would'nt classify any of those firearms as non-desirable on the secondary market to the point where you need to dump them.

Oh yeah.. And Ill go $190 for a 3" Python if anyone is interested. You will have to pay shipping to my FFL though. I cant absorb that kind of cost and still account for overhead. Feel free to send me pictures of your firearm along with a detailed account of usage and short essay on your experience no longer than 2,000 words. Betty hurry though because this offer has an end date.

 

[P89DCSS]

Sounds as if most of the posters in this thread prove they could never run business for more than a few months before going broke. If OP wants more money for his collection he's going to have to work for it.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I’m don’t find any of it offensive or insulting.

It is highly amusing though.

 

[LiveLife]

Sounds as if most of the posters in this thread prove they could never run business for more than a few months before going broke. If OP wants more money for his collection he's going to have to work for it.

I think for many members, issue is not whether this is common business practice or not but because the local guy advertises "Best prices offered for guns and gun collections" and "wouldn't stop telling me how generous he is to the widows, how everyone always goes straight to him after talking to all the other shops, When he buys from private collections he gives 80% of retail, just enough to get by ..."

So the focus of thread is whether the offer made is 80% of retail and as expressed by many members, offer made obviously is not.

Rick from Pawn Stars clearly discloses to his customers that he needs to make money after paying for overhead and usually offers 50% of appraised/fair market value and customers can take his offer or not. But the "local guy" didn't say he was offering less than 50% of fair market value rather 80% of retail and why many members are calling the local guy liar/shameless low life/shady opportunist.

 

[P89DCSS]

I think for many members, issue is not whether this is common business practice or not but because the local guy advertises "Best prices offered for guns and gun collections" and "wouldn't stop telling me how generous he is to the widows, how everyone always goes straight to him after talking to all the other shops, When he buys from private collections he gives 80% of retail, just enough to get by"

None of us were there so it's up to OP to describe his interaction. I ignored the whining and concentrated on the business issues. FFL have extra cost/risk issues compared to regular retail. Combine that with slowing market and looming recession and its clear OP is expecting charity, not a fair win/win for both parties.

 

[LiveLife]

its clear OP is expecting charity, not a fair win/win for both parties.

No, not at all. @silicosys4 clearly posted local guy's offer caused a "chuckle" in the OP and asked what we thought of the offer.

And members simply replied what we thought about the offer.

This was the OP

I thought this might make some of you laugh. It certainly made me chuckle.

how generous he is ... he gives 80% of retail ... I'm curious as to what you think of these numbers.

 

[JDeere]

Well he has got to make his money back. Some of his prices are way low but then again he is buying the lot. This why I only do consignment and do not sell to LGS outright. I always ask how much will you give me versus what my consignment price plus cut will be. I usually come out ahead on consignments. It helps to know your LGS and give them business in normal purchases as well.

 

[LiveLife]

Well he has got to make his money back.

That's not what the OP asked.

This is what OP asked THR members

I'm curious as to what you think of these numbers.

I understand that many THR members are gun dealers/FFLs and may be more supportive of local guy's low offer to justify cost of running a business (As we head out of another shortage towards leaner/more competitive times for gun dealers/FFLs) but that's not what the OP asked for in this thread discussion.

I think this is the key/focus of the thread ... OP once more

how generous he is ... he gives 80% of retail ... I'm curious as to what you think of these numbers.

So, was the offer 80% of retail and generous?

I'd have a very hard time calling those numbers "generous."

I'd have a hard time calling those prices "80% of retail".

 

[Buzznrose]

What, do you think I wish anything different for anyone here? Seriously?

The point is that someone's offer is not an insult simply because the seller finds it "too low". It's just too low.

Coercing someone into selling or taking advantage of someone's desperation, is a different thing entirely.

As far as a buyer taking advantage of a seller's ignorance, "Seller beware" is just as real a thing as "Buyer beware." If someone doesn't take the time to find out what they are selling is worth, they are going to find that they are in the same situation as a buyer who buys something without knowing what it's worth. One is no different from the other.

I agree 100% with JohnK’s posts in this thread.

Gun owners who liquidate firearms in a bulk sale at a single point in time should expect “estate sale” bids. It not good or bad, it’s business.

The lot buyer comes with cash not to add to a collection but to turn a profit from buying and selling a commodity…and they have to cover their costs and make some profit.

You cannot cherry pick the collection and think that makes up for the losses that will come on some of those guns.

I am not trying to be a jerk here. I would love to be able to pay some of those prices. But the truth is it will probably take the seller a few months or more to sell all those guns, and the market is soft right now.

Sellers should maximize their profits through individual sales, but time, local and state laws, local buyers, and effort will be a consideration.

No different than an estate sale…you don’t walk into an estate sale expecting to pay top dollar for house goods, especially if you are a second hand shop reseller…

Cash is king…plan ahead when possible.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

I love capitalism.

 

[LiveLife]

I love capitalism.

Key is to buy low when supply/inventory is outpacing demand and sell high at the peak of panic/shortage.

And we are coming out of another shortage cycle and I have a feeling we will experience more panic/shortage cycles in the future.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I agree 100% with JohnK’s posts in this thread.

Gun owners who liquidate firearms in a bulk sale at a single point in time should expect “estate sale” bids. It not good or bad, it’s business.

The lot buyer comes with cash not to add to a collection but to turn a profit from buying and selling a commodity…and they have to cover their costs and make some profit.

You cannot cherry pick the collection and think that makes up for the losses that will come on some of those guns.

I am not trying to be a jerk here. I would love to be able to pay some of those prices. But the truth is it will probably take the seller a few months or more to sell all those guns, and the market is soft right now.

Sellers should maximize their profits through individual sales, but time, local and state laws, local buyers, and effort will be a consideration.

No different than an estate sale…you don’t walk into an estate sale expecting to pay top dollar for house goods, especially if you are a second hand shop reseller…

Cash is king…plan ahead when possible.

https://durysguns.com/ <<< they will literally give you 80% of what they will sell yo gats 4! even send you boxes! and if it’s a sizable estate, fly a appraiser/check writer to yo crib!

This is not 1995 anymore, everyone got access to ffl all day everyday

 

[jmr40]

The only thing I disagree with is his 80% comment. I think that is misleading. If the buyer had said that he gives 60% of what he expects to sell the guns for I'd have no issue at all with his prices. There is no way he can give someone 80% of a gun's actual value and stay in business. He has to pay 50%-60% of what he thinks he can actually sell them for to stay in business. I can't fault someone for trying to make a decent living. He has expenses just like the rest of us and while the OP will get his money up front it will take a long time for the dealer to sell enough of those guns to just break even.

I don't know what some of those are really worth, but I know what some of them would sell for where I live. I don't think most of those prices are terribly far off. He offered $225 for a used G19. I can buy one of those anywhere for $299. That's offering 75% of what it would sell for.

A Weatherby Vanguard in 7mm Rem mag @ $250 with a damaged stock. That rifle could sit unsold for years and might bring $300. There is simply no demand for that rifle in that cartridge right now.

$275 for a CZ 75 that I can pick up used for $350. That's 78%.

$200 for a Sig sounds low, but you can't give away guns in 40 S&W right now. Especially with dead night sights. To the right person he might sell that gun for $400, but he might have to keep it for a very long time.

Most of the others appear to be about 50-60% of the guns actual value. Which is about what I'd expect someone to offer. As said earlier the 80% claim is the only thing I take issue with. He isn't offering 80%. And I wouldn't expect him to do so. Don't know if that is an attempt to be deceptive or if it is simply a mis-communication.

Extra magazines and accessories mean nothing when trading/selling a gun. In my experience it is always best to sell those separately.

 

[silicosys4]

You know, it wasn't the prices that put me off to this guy. I know how it goes. I know if you bring a guy $80k in firearms you aren't going to get $80k. In fact, as was said, a $40k offer for $80k worth of guns, or 50% value, is reasonable considering the time involved with selling the less desirable firearms along with the ones that will sell quickly. But that's for the whole lot.

But I packed up all 80+ guns. That took a while. I brought them to his house. I unpacked them.
Then he cherry picked only the 25 or so guns he knew he could sell very quickly and offered me what, 40% of retail, while he's telling me he pays 80%? He was clearly fishing for only the easy money, expecting the same prices as if he'd taken the entire lot.
I wasn't impressed.

 

[LiveLife]

He offered $225 for a used G19. I can buy one of those anywhere for $299. That's offering 75% of what it would sell for.

$275 for a CZ 75 that I can pick up used for $350. That's 78%.

That Glock 19 is Gen3 RTF2 with 8 magazines (Also for CZ 75 with 8 magazines) ... And I estimated 80% of retail with 8 magazines to be $360-$380 but the local guy offer was $225.

$225 just for the pistol is one thing but not with 8 magazines that could sell for $10+ each used.

Extra magazines and accessories mean nothing when trading/selling a gun. In my experience it is always best to sell those separately.

I agree. So essentially the local guy made offer on the pistols without factoring the value of magazines. OP could have separated the magazines for "magazine only" offer.

 

[jar]

The value of something is that which it will bring.

The guys marketing skills are on about the same level as a Carny Shill, a Medicine Man and the guy running a Three Card Monte. But those are are not insults.

I'd pass on those prices but they are not unreasonable or insulting. They are a bottom line stat and an idea of what will be possible at a bulk sale. I'd thank the gentleman and tell him I had to think about it and shop using the knowledge gained for a better offer but keeping the Low Ball in my pocket if needed.

This way to the Egress.

 

[Spats McGee]

I'm not bothered by the FFL trying to make a profit. If I sell a gun to a dealer, I know on the front end that's why he's buying it. I would even expect a little "puffery" in the FFL's statements about what great deals they give. That said, I do find it a little sketchy for the FFL to spend time telling the OP that he gives 80% of retail, when the numbers do not even come close to bearing that out (in my estimation).

 

[ilbob]

Unfortunately this is the way it is with most collectibles. The cost of being a dealer is so high that they cannot afford to give you anywhere near to what you think your stuff is worth.

I think you will also find that in most cases there is a lot more work to selling it yourself than you think going into it up front.

I have a small number of coins that I have purchased over the years and I have a pretty good feel for what the retail price is for those coins but I also know that I'm not going to get anywhere near a retail if I sell them to a dealer.

Look at it this way. If you are a gun dealer and you need to make $100,000 a year profit for yourself, there is probably another fifty thousand dollars worth of expenses such as rent, utilities, insurance, etc. That means you need to sell enough firearms to have a margin of $150,000. If you only make $100 per firearm that means you have to buy 1500 firearms a year, and you have to sell those same 1500 firearms. That amounts to buying and then reselling about six per business day just to make a living.

 

[LiveLife]

The only thing I disagree with is his 80% comment. I think that is misleading ... appear to be about 50-60% of the guns actual value ... He isn't offering 80%.

I do find it a little sketchy for the FFL to spend time telling the OP that he gives 80% of retail, when the numbers do not even come close to bearing that out

If I packed up 80+ guns based on "generous ... 80% retail" comment only to find out 50% retail, I would not be amused, rather upset.

Unfortunately this is the way ... The cost of being a dealer is so high that they cannot afford to give you anywhere near to what you think your stuff is worth.

That's fine but the local guy didn't say 50%, 60% or 70% ... Instead, 80% was mentioned.

If I was the OP and was emailed those numbers, I would have never packed up 80+ guns ... I think that's the point of OP.