Oh no, not another wet tumbling thread

[vaalpens]

Hmm, to low I don't know maybe the brass doesn't get as clean/shiny, (would need to do a batch without any to see what happens) not enough is probably not a big deal,
to much and the cases look funny, leaches the Zinc (copper? something...) out of the brass.

Side note: With normal amounts I had a couple brass coated steel cases I missed on the initial sort, they were easy to spot after because they turned a funny pinkish/orange color.

Good to know. So this is like working up a load. Start at the low end and work you way up.

There was another wet tumbling thread showing Wash and Wax, Dawn, Lemishine and beer in a picture.
I never did see an answer on how much beer and how it was used.

I think my last effort was probably a 2+ beer effort. Clean and clean again. If everything goes smoothly, then it is probably just a 2 beer effort. One for filling up the tumbler and starting it, and another when they have been removed from the tumbler.

 

[vaalpens]

I am currently testing rifle loads and I may do away with wet tumbling for rifle cartridges if my test goes the way I think it will.

Last weekend I wanted to go out and try a new scope I bought for my 6.5 Creedmoor.
I didn't have any clean brass so I loaded up 30 rounds of dirty brass for a ladder test.
I brushed out the necks and primer pockets, chamfered and deburred as I normally do, ran them through my sizer and then loaded them up.
I've never encountered lower ES and SD than I have with this dirty brass. ES as low as 1.6 for a 3 shot group.
I will try to do a controlled test in 2 weeks when I come back from vacation to see if I can prove or disprove my theory.
I will shoot (6) 5 round groups instead of (10) 3round groups. I will also shoot brass from the same lot that is cleaned in SS pins against it to see any differences.
I will create a separate thread to post my results.

This will be interesting to know, but it could lead to keeping track of how many times the brass have been used before cleaning. I assume case volume should decrease, so you should also watch the pressure.

I think I am with Dudedog on this one. I like to work with/handle clean brass.

 

[westernrover]

2.5 hours will just peen the case mouths so badly the edges will be rolled in, if not after one tumble, then after several. Try 15 minutes and if that doesn't make the cases as clean as any you've ever seen, 20 or 25 minutes at the most should. I get shiny brass inside and out and like-new primer pockets after no more than 15 minutes tumbling.

 

[vaalpens]

2.5 hours will just peen the case mouths so badly the edges will be rolled in, if not after one tumble, then after several. Try 15 minutes and if that doesn't make the cases as clean as any you've ever seen, 20 or 25 minutes at the most should. I get shiny brass inside and out and like-new primer pockets after no more than 15 minutes tumbling.

Thanks for the advice. This is the first time I've a recommendation for such a short period of time. What soap and citric acid combination do you use?

 

[vaalpens]

There are several Lemi Shine products. For citric acid be sure to use the Booster

https://lemishine.com/products/dish-detergent-booster

Thanks for the reminder. During these discussion the type of Lemi Shine to use question always comes up.

 

[westernrover]

Thanks for the advice. This is the first time I've a recommendation for such a short period of time. What soap and citric acid combination do you use?

Palmolive or Dawn and lemishine. I don't measure it, but I'd estimate 1 to 1 1/2 tablespoons of detergent and 3/4 teaspoon of lemishine. More detergent won't hurt but will take a little more water to rinse off. Too much lemishine (tablespoons) isn't good, but at first I was using too little (about 1/4 teaspoon, like a pinch).

 

[vaalpens]

Palmolive or Dawn and lemishine. I don't measure it, but I'd estimate 1 to 1 1/2 tablespoons of detergent and 3/4 teaspoon of lemishine. More detergent won't hurt but will take a little more water to rinse off. Too much lemishine (tablespoons) isn't good, but at first I was using too little (about 1/4 teaspoon, like a pinch).

Thanks! I'll go with the less is more next time. I'll maybe start with 1 hour and check the results. If it is like the last time (after the second clean), then I'll be happy.

 

[lordpaxman]

Probably the moral of the story is that, do not just keep record of your loads, but also keep record of your procedures, including the cleaning part of it.

I use my smart phone’s notes to keep the wet tumbling recipe, among other things. It’s easier and more convenient when I’m playing in the water. I’ve had the same experience with dull brass and thought for sure I added extra Dawn, but as long as it’s clean, it doesn’t have to be shiny, for me.

 

[Rule3]

I use my smart phone’s notes to keep the wet tumbling recipe, among other things. It’s easier and more convenient when I’m playing in the water. I’ve had the same experience with dull brass and thought for sure I added extra Dawn, but as long as it’s clean, it doesn’t have to be shiny, for me.

Is your FART Wi FI enabled so you can check it's progress and adjust timing?

(sorry , just had to !)

 

[OTShooter]

I have a Thumler's Model B High Speed tumbler. It's heavier than a FART, but has essentially the same capacity.

I use more Lemishine (the dishwasher booster product) than the OP. I use a .45 case full, which is almost exactly 1/4 teaspoon. That helps with measuring, and I'm not dipping a dirty brass case in what we use to clean our dishes. The Lemishine goes in on top of the pins and dirty brass.

I use a big squirt of Dawn, too. I put in a "one, two" count squeeze, after adding the water. Then I seal up the barrel, set it on the base and run it.

I run for anywhere from three to four hours. Four is optimum for full loads of brass, or particularly gnarly, less full loads. If I'm tumbling small loads, I'll run it for three hours. I've learned that patience is a good thing with wet tumbling.

 

[Bayou52]

I've been SS wet tumbling since Aug. of 2012. Also using a Thumlers high speed model B with a 15 pound drum capacity.

My settled-on recipe is 1 -2 ounces of auto wash and wax, 1/4 -1/2 TSP lemishine and filling the drum with hot tap water to about an inch or two from the top.

If the brass is dirty but not severely tarnished, then 2 hours of tumbling is more than enough. If the brass is weathered and/or tarnished, then 3- 4 hours of tumbling will be used to produce a jewelry-like finish.

Pic of typical batch of wet tumbled brass:



Bayou52

 

[lordpaxman]

Is your FART Wi FI enabled so you can check it's progress and adjust timing?

(sorry , just had to !)

No, it’s just Bluetooth so I’m quite limited as to how far from the unit I can get. Thankfully it’s far enough to the chair and adult beverage

You should submit that suggestion to FA. I recall the newer RCBS powder dispenser will allow connections.

 

[vaalpens]

I have a Thumler's Model B High Speed tumbler. It's heavier than a FART, but has essentially the same capacity.

I use more Lemishine (the dishwasher booster product) than the OP. I use a .45 case full, which is almost exactly 1/4 teaspoon. That helps with measuring, and I'm not dipping a dirty brass case in what we use to clean our dishes. The Lemishine goes in on top of the pins and dirty brass.

I use a big squirt of Dawn, too. I put in a "one, two" count squeeze, after adding the water. Then I seal up the barrel, set it on the base and run it.

I run for anywhere from three to four hours. Four is optimum for full loads of brass, or particularly gnarly, less full loads. If I'm tumbling small loads, I'll run it for three hours. I've learned that patience is a good thing with wet tumbling.

Thanks for the information. It seems the recipes are all similar, but some believe in a dishwashing soap/liquid and some in a car wash and wax. The lemi shine is normally 1/4 to 1/2 tsp or 9mm/.45acp case. Tumbling time is anything from below 1 hour, 3/4/ hours.

 

[vaalpens]

I've been SS wet tumbling since Aug. of 2012. Also using a Thumlers high speed model B with a 15 pound drum capacity.

My settled-on recipe is 1 -2 ounces of auto wash and wax, 1/4 -1/2 TSP lemishine and filling the drum with hot tap water to about an inch or two from the top.

If the brass is dirty but not severely tarnished, then 2 hours of tumbling is more than enough. If the brass is weathered and/or tarnished, then 3- 4 hours of tumbling will be used to produce a jewelry-like finish.

Pic of typical batch of wet tumbled brass:

View attachment 1092373

Bayou52

Thanks for the how-to and showing proof of your results.

How do you measure your 1-2 ounces of wash and wax, or is that just a guess?

Looks like with wash and wax we are about 2-4 TBSP or 4-6 TBSP.

 

[Bayou52]

How do you measure your 1-2 ounces of wash and wax, or is that just a guess?

I simply use a one ounce plastic scoop to measure with.

1 ounce is enough for brass that is merely coated with carbon. And for severely weathered or tarnished brass, 2 ounces is typically used.

Thanks!

Bayou52

 

[Nature Boy]

A wet tumbling thread and we aren’t at 3 pages yet? THR is slacking!

 

[Highland Lofts]

There was another wet tumbling thread showing Wash and Wax, Dawn, Lemishine and beer in a picture.
I never did see an answer on how much beer and how it was used.

I don't know that the clean wet tumbled brass shoots any better, but nice shiny brass makes me

That was my post on the other wet tumbler thread.
The amount of beer depends on how many it takes to get inebriated.
I generally down about twelve or so.




As far as the wet tumbler additives I add
A 1/2 teaspoon of Lemi-shine
a cap full of ArmorAll Wash n Wax
A cap of Finnish Jet Dry
A small squirt ofDawn.

I alway use HOT tap water
I always tumble for close to an hour.
Drain & fill up tumbler again with warm tap water, shake it drum then dump the water.

Fill back up with warm water and add another cap of ArmorAll Wash n Wax. Run for ten to fifteen minutes.
Drain & put the brass on my drying racks.

 

[vaalpens]

How do you measure your 1-2 ounces of wash and wax, or is that just a guess?

I simply use a one ounce plastic scoop to measure with.

1 ounce is enough for brass that is merely coated with carbon. And for severely weathered or tarnished brass, 2 ounces is typically used.

Thanks!

Bayou52

Thanks! Being specific helps somebody else that is just starting, and is also repeatable.

 

[vaalpens]

A wet tumbling thread and we aren’t at 3 pages yet? THR is slacking!

Not to worry. We will stretch it out. I will recap all the responses into a table format once responses start to slow.

 

[vaalpens]

That was my post on the other wet tumbler thread.
The amount of beer depends on how many it takes to get inebriated.
I generally down about twelve or so.

As far as the wet tumbler additives I add
A 1/2 teaspoon of Lemi-shine
a cap full of ArmorAll Wash n Wax
A cap of Finnish Jet Dry
A small squirt ofDawn.

I alway use HOT tap water
I always tumble for close to an hour.
Drain & fill up tumbler again with warm tap water, shake it drum then dump the water.

Fill back up with warm water and add another cap of ArmorAll Wash n Wax. Run for ten to fifteen minutes.
Drain & put the brass on my drying racks.

Thanks for all the detailed information. Just a couple of questions/observations:

• You did not mention the SS pins, but I assume they are used in your FART
• You mentioned there is beer in the picture. I just saw Budweiser. Where is the beer?

 

[vaalpens]

I have mentioned that I will recap all recipes that have been shared in this thread, but I will probably also recap the different ways the brass is separated from the pins, and what drying method is used. The drying method probably depends on the time of the year and where you are. The pins/brass separation takes a bit of experimenting until you find something that works for you.

I haven't shared my pins/brass separation process yet, but basically what I do is:

• Dump water and pins into a bucket through a colander and flour sift. This is using the grid insert for the FAR so that the brass stays behind.
• The ss pins should now be in the sift, so I will run clean water through it into the bucket to rinse them. The ss pins will then be dumped on a towel.
• Throw out the bucket water carefully and use a magnet to take out any pins that made it into the bucket
• Fill the FART with clean water, rinse and dump water into a bucket through a colander and flour sift.
• I will do this a few times until the water is clean. Throughout the process I am separating the ss pins from the brass, and trying not to lose any pins
• After rinsing, then I'll dump the cases onto another towel, and just move the cases around with my hand and use the magnet to pick up ss pins
• Once I am reasonable happy the most of the pins are separated from the cases, then I'll just put the towels outside to dry the pins and cases.

This phase of the cleaning process just takes a bit of patience. Even being careful, I always find a few pins that make it into the bucket, or maybe even on the concrete when I carefully throw out the bucket water.

Don't forget about the pins stuck inside the FART also. For these pins I just normally place the drum standing up, and let it dry. The pins will then just fall out and you can pick them up with a magnet.

 

[hdwhit]

I have not cleaned any brass for a while, but yesterday I had to pull out the FART and clean some 9mm brass. After getting ready I realized that I can't remember exactly what I used the last time. I remember I used dishwashing liquid and/or car wash and wax, plus some Lemi Shine, but couldn't remember any of the details.

So I decided to go the wash and wax route with Lemi Shine. The following went into the tumbler:
2 Caps of wash and wax, 9mm case Lemi Shine, +- 1k 9mm dirty cases, hot tap water up to the neck, and the 5lb SS pins.

After running the tumbler for 2.5 hours, I couldn't believe the results. The cases were dull, looked tarnished, and started getting the blackish color.

They were definitely clean and I could have used them to reload, but I decided I need to figure out what happened. I wasn't sure if I did not have enough soap, or maybe too much Lemi Shine, so I decided to try the other soap. This is what went into the tumbler:

About 3 squirts of Palmolive dishwashing liquid, about as much as for dishes, half a 9mm case Lemi Shine, +- 1k 9mm tarnished cases, hot tap water up to the neck, and the 5lb SS pins.

Because I wasn't sure if the previous results were due to the soap or lemi shine, I decide to run the tumbler just over 1 hour, to see if the results were improving, stayed the same, or getting worse.

After the hour, the water was still nice and soapy, and when I emptied the FART I could see some dirty water again, and the cases were getting to the nice and shiny look. The cases were not perfect yet, but much better than before. So I decide to stop while I was ahead, and put the cases into the ready to load rotation.

I am just posting this thread to hopefully help somebody else running into the same issue. It seemed to me that maybe I did not have enough soap during the first attempt, but at least now I know I'll probably go back to the dishwashing liquid and a little bit of lemi shine. Next time I will probably measure how much dishwashing liquid I use, and then write it down.

Probably the moral of the story is that, do not just keep record of your loads, but also keep record of your procedures, including the cleaning part of it.

Amen.

Whether we're talking contacts, taxes or reloading, there's no substitute for a good paper trail.

Glad you figured it out and got your shine back.

 

[vaalpens]

Amen.

Whether we're talking contacts, taxes or reloading, there's no substitute for a good paper trail.

Glad you figured it out and got your shine back.

Thanks for the kind words.

At my age I'm not sure if I can get my shine back again, but at least I got the cases back to being shiny.

 

[Dudedog]

The amount of beer depends on how many it takes to get inebriated.

So I can assume the beer DOES NOT go in the tumbler

 

[Highland Lofts]

It goes in the tumbler operator.