Ok you metal heads...

[9mmforMe]

...and I'm not talking about lovers of Black Sabbath, Metallica and Megadeth. No, you guys who really know your steel what do you think would be the top 3 or 4 knife blade steels in a folder which perform very well in say a variety of situations?
I know this may change a good deal, but hell I remember when folders were just taking off a little over 20 years ago or so and ATS-34 was the steel to have...my how things seem to change(??)

 

[rcmodel]

No metalhead for sure.

But I still like my old AST-34 Benchmade knives better then a couple of new super-steel ones I can't sharpen near as easily.

Truth be known, I like the old Pre-WWII Marbles and PAL's made out of plain old high carbon steel.
I can sharpen them shaving sharp on a flat rock in a couple of minutes if thats all I have handy.

And they stay that way about as long as my new wonder-steel knives that takes diamond hones to sharpen 'almost' but not quite as sharp.

I have a D2 Kershaw nothing much will touch.

rc

 

[hso]

This is a question with no good answer since there are too many different priorities with different applications and no one steel does everything well.

OTOH, cobalt alloys do an admirable job as cutters with a toothy edge and can't corrode.

 

[Double_J]

High carbon steel, 440C for when I work around salt water, it tends to hold up better than anything else and they tend to be inexpensive when lost overboard, D2 when I want brute strength and hardness, and whatever steel spyderco used about 15 years ago in the delica II line of knives. My delica was CRAZY SHARP and stayed sharp no matter what I did.

I would also like to add for the record that I am a HUGE Black Sabbath fan, somewhat a fan of Metallica/Megadeath, and Judas Priest. Does that qualify me to be a "Metal Head?"

 

[Sam Cade]

I'm perfectly happy with AUS-8 or 440C since I'm fairly hard on pocket knives and ease of sharpening is more important to me than maximum edge retention under ideal conditions.

 

[9mmforMe]

hso, youre right I was not specific enough. which knife steel would you choose in a folder and why?

 

[9mmforMe]

Double J,
You have great taste...BS was the originator and the best, IMO.

I like 440C for the same reason, anti corrosive properties that is.

 

[hso]

Gents folder, farm/ranch, tactical? See, even grades within the folders.
Not a thing wrong with 440C when properly ground and heat treated for most folder applications and it polishes well so it makes a pretty good gents folder. OTOH it can be a little brittle with a fine edge. BG42 is good for tougher applications. So's ATS-34, but it will freckle. 153-CM seems a little more resistant to freckling than ATS-34 and I think BG42 is superior for real rough use. VG-10 is better than ATS-34 and 154-CM because of better corrosion resistance. S30-V holds an edge and resists rust and is tough, but can be difficult to sharpen. CPM S30-V, OTOH, has all the merits of S30-V AND is easier to sharpen (go figure). Then the CPM "zoo" takes off and it get's to splitting hairs.

 

[9mmforMe]

Wow, my head is spinning. Had not heard of half of those steels.

 

[Valkman]

I like all those that hso mentioned but also like D2. My last couple of Benchmades were D2 and I like it a lot.

 

[Gordon]

O1 steel properly differentially heat treated, then hard chrome it to keep from rusting too quickly.

 

[DNS]

Surprisingly I've found I really like the asian made 8CR13MOV. Sharpens fairly easy and edge retention is pretty good.

I've got a Spyderco Ladybug in ZDP on order and I'm patiently waiting (like a five year old on Dec 24th )

 

[ugaarguy]

S30-V holds an edge and resists rust and is tough, but can be difficult to sharpen. CPM S30-V, OTOH, has all the merits of S30-V AND is easier to sharpen (go figure).

All S30V is CPM - Crucible Powder Metallurgy. I assume you meant to type (CPM) S35VN as the second steel. The N - Niobium - is the significant addition to the alloy that makes S35VN easier to machine and sharpen. Keep in mind that Crucible is using 1st generation PM technology.

I've found Bohler-Uddeholm Elmax to be easier to sharpen than S30V, now that I've finally cut enough manila rope to actually dull the blade on the ZT 0801 I got at Blade. Apparently it's easy to sharpen because BU's PM technology is 3rd generation which results in a very fine grain structure. Elmax is also tougher (more impact resistant) than S30V even when Elmax is run at higher hardness.

Even though I've found Elmax easier to sharpen than S30V, I've not found either steel difficult to sharpen using DMT diamond "stones". Hopefully I'll get a knife with an S90V or S110V blade before the end of the year so I can play with one of those steels.

 

[Zeke/PA]

I really like the Carbon steel Opinels for ease of sharpening to a razor edge.
I'm still a big fan of D-2 Tool Steel for edge retention and it's rust resistant qualities.

 

[hso]

No, I meant there's some difference in performance between the CPM and non particle version of S30-V. Weird, but makers I've talked to say the CPM is easier to sharpen and they don't know why and I sure don't know why it would be the case since they should be the same from a composition standpoint.

***

Added
I had seen a micrograph of CPM S30-V that Doug Ritter had taken from the data sheet for CPM S30-V and found one for S30-V and wasn't surprised to see the grain size and carbide distribution in the CPM was much more uniform than the non particle metallurgy S30-V. That could account for some claims the CPM S30-V has an advantage over alloyed S30-V.

 

[bikerdoc]

I jike em all. Just leave the 440 A and B alone.

 

[chameleonbear]

Most of my blades are 1095 or 1095CV. I'm presently entering the world of 52100, however I still need to finish that blade. I have an elmax blade which I am really liking however it's more of a slicer than a hard use knife just cause it's SO thin.

 

[ugaarguy]

I had seen a micrograph of CPM S30-V that Doug Ritter had taken from the data sheet for CPM S30-V and found one for S30-V and wasn't surprised to see the grain size and carbide distribution in the CPM was much more uniform than the non particle metallurgy S30-V. That could account for some claims the CPM S30-V has an advantage over alloyed S30-V.

Mike, I'm sorry, but there is no ingot cast S30V; all S30V is CPM. The micrograph you're talking about in the CPM S30V data sheet compares an unspecified CPM steel to an unspecified conventional ingot cast steel just to highlight the finer grain structure achieved by the CPM process.

Are you thinking about 154 CM and CPM 154? They have the exact same alloy composition, but CPM 154 has a much finer and more uniform grain structure resulting from the PM process.

 

[Yarddog]

"I really like the Carbon steel Opinels for ease of sharpening to a razor edge."

^^^Me Too^^^ I like the Old Timer lock blade USA.. Great Value & holds a edge pretty well ; )
Y/D

 

[hso]

all S30V is CPM

154 CM and CPM 154

 

[ugaarguy]

Direct from crucible.

S30V:

154:

 

[hso]

Yeah, the "uh-oh" smiley is shorthand for "Doh! 154 CM!".

 

[9mmforMe]

bikerdoc:
"I jike em all. Just leave the 440 A and B alone."

You mean leave them alone as they are not good? Or leave them alone as they are fine as they are?

If not good...why so? I have quite a few Bucks that I have had no problems with at all.


edit: ooops that's 420 HC I think.

 

[Valkman]

440 A and B are not nearly as good as 440C, that's why you see knives advertised as "440" but it's not C or they'd say so.

 

[ugaarguy]

440B isn't horribly far off from 440C with .2% less carbon on average, and 440A with the same .2% carbon less than 440B; although .2% carbon is pretty significant when talking about cutlery steels. All three steels are otherwise identical in composition, including the 16%-18% chromium content. So, 440A and B are more corrosion resistant than C because there's more Cr free in the Fe matrix after the all carbon has formed chromium and molybdenum carbides. However, 440C has significantly better edge retention.

In practical terms that means 440A is good choice for blades that need decent edge retention with very high corrosion resistance and low cost. 440A is actually quite comparable to AUS-8. AUS-8 has a little better edge retention because it replaces some the molybdenum found in 440A with vanadium, which forms harder carbides than Cr or Mo. AUS-8 is also tougher because it has a bit of nickel, which the 440 steels don't have, and AUS-8's lower Cr content also increases toughness. However, 440A, with it's 3.25% avg. higher Cr content is much more corrosion resistant than AUS-8. 440C, with its much high carbon content, has much better edge holding than 440A or AUS-8; and it still has fairly high corrosion resistance.

After some rest I'll hop back on and compare 440C to the 154 CM / ATS-34 twins.