Old rifles on par with new rifles?

[Jolly Green]

Another hypothetical post:

I enjoy the look and feel of old military rifles and that is were the problem starts. I'm (hypothetically) looking for a intermediate caliber rifle that reaches to 500 yards accurately. This screams AR 15, but I really dislike the metal/polymer/whatnot look/feel of it.
Also everybody on the firing line at my range has an ar 15 or a hunting rifle (and im not a fan of a majority of the constituents at the range (loud, cuss, and almost always have no idea what they are talking about)) (but I found the longer range I go to, the less of the previously described are present).

I have a Swede Mauser and enjoy it, but I feel that I am shooting a large hunting round at a relatively close target (200 yards) Also I'd like to start reloading with a cheaper caliber.

In short the dilemma is I am (hypothetically) look for an older rifle that can almost perform on par with an AR 15.

600 yards is the farthest range at the shooting center i attend, but I doubt I'll get past 400 before I go to college in August.

P.S. I'm a sucker for iron sights, but would like the option to scope it. Please no sporters: I am not a hunter nor have any intention of being one (hence my 6.5x55 dilema) (it all punches through the paper just as well).

Rifles I have messed around with (never shot) but thoroughly enjoy (aesthetically/functionally):

m1 carbine
enfields
mausers (all and any)
M1903
SKS


Any suggestions for this (hypothetical) dilema are appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[JWF III]

Though not an intermediate round, let me be the first to say... Get a Garand.

But saying you want an intermediate round, that screams 6.5x55 Swede. M40b (Swedish Sniper) can be found. Relatively, reasonably priced.

Wyman

 

[Justin]

Unless you're into collecting old stuff for the sake of having neat old stuff, the intended role of the gun should be the primary and only guiding factor in purchasing a firearm.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

m1 carbine, SKS

Great short range guns. Neither caliber has the legs for 4-500 yard work.

enfields, mausers (all and any), M1903

The Enfields in .303 are reliable to 300 yards or so, but most of the surplus ammo will start dropping significantly past 200-250 yards.

The Mausers and the M1903 would both be excellent choices for the ranges you mention.

let me be the first to say... Get a Garand.

Let me be the second.

Based on what you've said, the Garand sounds like the perfect fit. I've always loved the iron sights on the Garands; the -06 shell is certainly capable at 500 yards; and there is a wide range of .30 cal bullets for reloading, or a wide range of factory 30-06 ammo available already loaded.

My best advice is to try to find someone who has one of the Garands and shoot it for yourself. They are sweet as June rain.

KR

 

[Birddog1911]

I'll be the third to say Garand. Exceptional iron sights. Should the .30 US be too much, then consider the Garand in .308, or an M1A. Both calibers will easily hit the ranges you're wanting to shoot. The M1A has the same great sights as the Garand; and both can be set with National Match sights for 1/2 MOA adjustments.

 

[winchester '97]

Really not an internediate but the Swiss K-31 will shoot as good or better than most hunting rifles out there now, 1 inch groups or less at 100 yards seems to be the norm. Also the scope mounts for these are non-destructive yet very solid.

 

[Quentin]

Hey the AR-15/M16 has seen about 50 years of military service. That's old, certainly not "new". So don't write off an AR! My choice anyway...

 

[Jim Watson]

Do you reload?
Do you have a large ammunition budget?

 

[NCsmitty]

The Garand/ M1A rifles certainly fill the bill if your looking for a good semi-auto for competition.
Some other semi-auto rifles that fit the bill is the Swedish Ljungman AG42 in 6.5x55, but they are becoming more collector valued and are more expensive.

The French 49/56 Mas semi-auto in 7.5 French can still be found reasonably, and they can be pretty accurate from what I read.

Some Russian and German semis may rate a look too.

I bet that you'll probably end up with the reliable Garand.



NCsmitty

 

[Zerodefect]

+1 on not overlooking the Ar because it isn't your style.

Chambered in 6.5 Grendel it can reach out there like a .308 and AR's are known for their acuracy.

 

[mudriver]

While not an intermediate, I took my Mosin to the range about a month ago and smoked some AR guys shooting at 300 and 400. They had scopes and I had open sights. My Mosin was about 130

 

[Jolly Green]

I hope to start reloading very soon. How much would it cost to reload .30-06 or .308? I found it would cost me a little over .40 to reload 6.5x55, so if there is a large enough difference I could probably get away with selling and getting a m1 Garand. Still looking at other options though.

Any thoughts on the kel-tec su16C? It definitely doesn't have the rugged/beautiful military rifle look to it, but it looks different and seems to get decent goups in the reviews i've read.

The search goes on....

 

[Cosmoline]

Not to knock the Garand, but not all of them are going to give exceptional accuracy. They *CAN* be made quite accurate, but it's going to be easier and less expensive all around to work with a bolt action if you're really looking at nailing 500 or 600 yard targets with iron sights. That's a long ways out there. A long, long ways.

Some surplus rifles can do it. The Schmidt-Rubins with GP-11, some of the Finnish Mosins and the best of the Enfields spring to mind. But most aren't up to it--though I suppose it depends on what you mean by accurate.

 

[madcratebuilder]

If your goal is accuracy then a K-31 in very good or better condition is hard to beat, GP11 ammo is affordable and plentiful.

If you want a cheap to shoot bolt gun that has reasonable accuracy then a Yugo M48 series is cheap and ammo is cheap. Some of the Yugo's are excellent shooters.

The Lee Enfields are fun shooters, not always the most accurate and good surplus is expensive, if you can find it, you have to re-load if you want to shot these very much. The newer unissued No4 MkII's can be found in unfired condition and these can be made in to very accurate rifles, but the cost is considerably higher than the normal surplus LE.

To get a semi like a M1A or Garand to shot very accurate takes a lot more cash, but you have a lot more rifle.

Start collecting at a young age so when your an old fart like me you have them all!

 

[GD]

A Garand is a ton of fun but it's accuracy is not on par with the Swiss K31 or some of the Finnish mosins. I get a kick out of outshooting the scoped modern firearms on the range with my old open iron sighted military rifles. I am always asked how much and where did I get that rifle! When I tell them the price of the ammo, they are ready to find one. The Finnish mosins accuracy is somewhat dependent on the ammo you use but the K31 with GP11 ammo is always a sure bet.

 

[Roadkill]

There are still some excellent old guns out there. The two shown are both pawn shop deals, paid $375 for the pair last year, the Mauser is an FN gun made in 1948, 30-06, I use .311 150g bullets sized down to .308 and the marlin 336 was made in 1970. Both are in excellent condition, accurate far beyond my capabilities, knock down deer like Thor's hammer, and reloading for them gives many options and reduced expense.

 

[Jim Watson]

You are in a true dilemma, you cannot have everything at once.

Your Swede is about as good as it gets in World War era rifles. You can reload for it about as cheaply as any other caliber. The Swiss K31 is the only possibility for greater accuracy.

If you could give up your prejudice against sporting rifles, the best thing I know of for a 200-600 yard rifle is a good bolt action .223; as available from Savage, Remington, Tikka, and CZ. They all have varmint and target models that get away from the "hunting rifle" image that annoys you. The lighter bullets and smaller powder charges would save a LITTLE on reloaded ammunition.

Check the catalog specifications for a 7 or 8 inch twist to handle the 75-80 grain bullets needed for best midrange accuracy.