Oldest M2 machine gun that was still in service

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Heck of a weapon and service life

Got to train with/shoot an M2 back in 2004 in preparation for a deployment to Mosul, Iraq that didn't happen. As an Air Force Fire Fighter it was just amazing to get to train on some of the Army toys. I'm glad to see that they are planning on keeping the M2 around for a good long while yet.
 
Ummmm... can't resist.... "Grandma Deuce?"

Well, somebody had to do it. Might as well have been me.
 
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Pretty sure I shot one dated 1928 when I was in the Army in 99. I took note that the date was OLD.
 
I worked on several that dated from world war 2 when I was in service in the 1980s.
If they continued to be maintained after I left then I'm betting those guns are still chugging along today.
 
Wonder if there is enough DNA left to clone another John Browning??

What this country needs is another genious firearms designer just like that!!

rc
 
But in a way it just shows you just how pitiful our designers are today. What happened?

Deaf
 
They went to collage school, got computers, electric lights, and CNC machines??

O'l John didn't have none of that stuff going on in his workshop!!

rc
 
The M2 has had upgrades like the quick change barrel over its service life. But since it works and they're paid for, why change? An M2 is a SOLID weapon milled from blocks of by-God steel. It'll be awhile until the last one wears out.
 
I have come to the profound conclusion that technology is making us dumb - devolving us in a way. CNC means we can program a design, and it is very useful, but smart phones that do all our learning for us so that we don't have to know much anymore, our divorce from the natural world as so many of us wall ourselves into fortresses against the outdoors in city warrens, our inability even to understand (as a species, not individuals) how our food even comes to be, has made us pathetically inept in so many ways.

A select few can code machines, and they are called marvels. Yet coding in all its many forms, creating electronic devices that do so many things for us, is itself a form of creative genius, the resulting products carry us towards a realm of impotence that is amazing to see.

I teach Algebra in school and we eschew calculators except when they keep us from wasting time (like very long division with decimals that will not increase ability but take time - mine already know how to do long division). When I did so, my kids actually became better at the math - all forms of it. They have bought on to the idea that they want to be better than the "cheap Chinese piece of plastic" that the school issues (even if it is a Texas Instruments 84). My brother-in-law, a doctor, retired Air Force Major, and director at a major hospital in charge of network information and design realized the same thing and is sending his daughter to a private school that has zero technology beyond books, lights, pencils, and air conditioning. Sure, she has a tablet at home, but at school, not at all.

Browning was a genius who deserves mentioning along with the likes of Euclid, Newton or that lesser man Einstein (Euclid and Newton were titans compared to the latter). His mechanical understanding proved he was a savant. I regularly use my Savage 720 from about the same era and it is still every bit as capable (except it won't take 3" shells) as any semi-auto shotgun today. It's a Browning design. I dare say nobody on this forum can claim to have a collection that lacks at least one piece that is not based on his designs - even Glock's are based on his designs (and more so, when you consider his original Hi Power concept was striker-fired).
 
I can write code for CNC machines.
The Glock abounds in excellent design features and IS a marvel of modern technological advances in good gun design.
Look how many "Modern" pistols pretty well out and out copy it.
 
But in a way it just shows you just how pitiful our designers are today. What happened?

They design things that an operator can launch hundreds of miles away from harm to kill the enemy with more precision and more completely than a full belt burst from an M2.
 
Why redesign perfection. Having carried one of those things, or at least parts of one, on a 12 mile road march I don't care if I never see one again.
 
"...CNC means we can program a design..." No it doesn't. Just means you don't need a highly trained machinist.
Had C1A1's as old as myself on my MIU, 35 plus years ago. Mid 50's vintage. All of 'em went bang and were as accurate as the crappy IVI ammo made 'em. That .50 very likely spent its life in a National Guard armoury or the like.
 
How many remember the old TV Show called "The Rat Patrol"?

My favorite image of the Ma Duece in action is in the opening of the TV show where the jeep clears a sand dune with the .50 mounted on it blazing away.

Probably another reason why I love the W.W.II jeeps so well also.
 
Look how many "Modern" pistols pretty well out and out copy it.

One single reason. It showed the other manufactures they could also lower their manufacturing costs drastically and still sell guns. Why the heck would Glock even be brought up in this thread anyhow??
 
I talked with an Iraq vet once who said when the .50 cal. came out the fight was all over, the terrorists got pretty quiet then.
 
The Soviet DShk can arguably be stated as just as reliable. I've seen numerous in Iraq with 1938 and newer stamp dates - and they really get used and neglected there.

And you're defiantly aware when it's being fired at you.
 
They design things that an operator can launch hundreds of miles away from harm to kill the enemy with more precision and more completely than a full belt burst from an M2.
If these long range gizmos are so good then why we still use lots of Ma Duces???

Deaf
 
If these long range gizmos are so good then why we still use lots of Ma Duces???

There is a value put on human life, ours and there's. Since Japan we occupy places with men vs kill everyone to save our guys lives.

Our men getting killed is offset by how humane we are for just shooting people who are shooting back at us. Kind of like the Kunduz air strike that made national news back in October, friendly's come under fire, air strike ordered people die and world wide outrage...arguably less potential for collateral damage with bullets flying. "Innocent" people don't hang around a fire fight very long.
 
Quick change barrels for the M2 came out of a deficiency in training. The myths abound with the old M2 abound. Headspace and timing became some sort of taboo topic and people didn't understand it. Old timers forgot to pass on knowledge and others were to scared learn. Plus the Army was blowing up 50s due to excessive headspace because they didn't how how to properly set headspace back in the first part of the Iraq war. New guys and military instructors do not understand headspace and timing. The QCB is an attempt to address a training issue with a mechanical fix. Now, rather than a gunner being able to "fine tune" his /her M2 by properly adjusting the headspace or timing to run optimally, the gun must be taken to an armorer who has to choose the correct locking block, one of 22 if my memory serves (depending on the manufacturer) to affect the headspace. Then the armorer must remove a set screw located on the top of the receiver (part of the rear sight) to make timing adjustments. The gunner can no longer do this "on the fly" in the field when he needs to most.

Our granddaddy's all knew how to do this back in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. For some reason our Gen Xers can't be trusted to do this, or the knowledge has been lost do to safety concerns and lack of experience. Compare manuals from before 1968 and after on the M2, a lot of great information is missing. Damn shame.

When I was training guys who had QCBs, I would always advise gunners operating in combat to carry extra locking blocks of sizes slightly thicker and narrower (they're numbered) than the one in the gun, and replace the set screw with an old M2HB screw, so that in combat, they could get they're .50 back in the fight if needed. We actually taught headspace and timing so they understood how the thing actually worked. Nothing more demoralizing than to have your M2 go down in the middle of a fight.

The QCBs in my opinion are no better and may actually be more detrimental to the gunners when they do go down as headspace becomes excessive or timing falls off. Or different lots of ammo or foreign made ammo is used.

How do I know all this. I've trained 1000s on M2HBs and M2QCBs and have been involved in numerous tests. I have literally millions of rounds through these things. I loved the HBs way more than the QCBs. You just have to adequately train folks how to use them. Makes me sad. John Moses Browning was a genius.
 
There is a value put on human life, ours and there's. Since Japan we occupy places with men vs kill everyone to save our guys lives.

Our men getting killed is offset by how humane we are for just shooting people who are shooting back at us. Kind of like the Kunduz air strike that made national news back in October, friendly's come under fire, air strike ordered people die and world wide outrage...arguably less potential for collateral damage with bullets flying. "Innocent" people don't hang around a fire fight very long.
Jim... right now Obama has just about ran us out of those gizmo missiles... And got not much done. Soon we will be back to using iron dumb bombs. See those fancy and very expensive gizmos have a place in the arsenal but only a place.

One day we will fight an enemy who can fight back real well and we will run out of gizmos real quick. And that is why we have the Ma Duce. I only wish we had a newer design that was better.

Deaf
 
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