Once and for all thread: Wolf in an AR

Status
Not open for further replies.
"My friends cousin had his extractor break in 8 pieces and the laquer glued his hand to the AR
Click to expand...

That's just funny, I don't care who ya are!

I'm getting to the point of using wolf or other steel cased laquered ammo in my colts. I hate having to go that route but I like to practice. The question I have on the laquer issue is why does it not melt and glue the rounds to the chamber in an AK? I have a MAC 90 that loves this stuff and I've never seen any evidence of laquer in the chamber. I'm thinking the melted laquer thing is BS. Seems the empty cases would be tacky immediately after extraction if the laquer was melting but they are not.
 
I've used probably close to a thousand rounds over the past couple years. No damage to any guns, a few jams in one Ruger Mini.

The only reason I choose something other than Wolf is it's not a very hot round, and accuracy is less than stellar.
 
i am no big fan of the ar,but these performances listed here are impressive.
 
Another Wolf in a AR thread................ 15fbf4a8.gif

Ok now that thats out of the way here are my thoughts on shooting Wolf in a AR15. It goes bang most of the time, it stinks, its dirty, it is not accurate. Wolf also feels like its not loaded as hot as even most commercial .223 rounds, although I do not have a way to test velocity so that is just my speculation. I look at Wolf as blasting ammo good for guys that like to bump fire and nothing more.

The only type of ammo that has ever stuck in the chamber of any AR I have owned is Wolf. I do shoot it though to fuction test new mags, and rifles since its cheap. When I do this I slap in a mag, chamber a round, and pull the trigger as fast as I can to test reliablity. I figure if a mag can feed, and a rifle fire the stuff then it will be more than reliable with decent ammo. I have not had the problem of sticky chambers from melted case coatings you hear so much of. I also get a kick out of guys who claim Wolf should never be used due to extractor wear and breakage. A new extractor runs about $10, compare that to the difference in cost between 500 rounds of Wolf vs 500 rounds of WWB.

In conclusion for target shooting, hunting, and SHTF stash I do not use Wolf. I do not zero my scopes, or sights with it. I shoot it for high volume reliability tests, and sometimes for fun when I just feel like pulling the trigger. Use it if you want but I would never bet my life on it, or a match. Shoot it if you want, but don't expect amazing things from it.
 
Notice!!! I Am Eating My Hat.

Well boys, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't written the letter and recieved the reply myself, but Wolf ammo voids DPMS warranties. I qoute you the email I received back from them in full:

Tim,
We do not suggest using WOLF ammo, either the new production or the
old
stuff that is out there.
The use of this ammo does and has caused problems with feeding and
extraction. The lacquer coating will get in the chamber causing these
problems.
It will void the warranty using the ammo.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact our sales team.

Thank you,
Shane C
DPMS Sales and Service
Click to expand...

I think thats a bunch of crap, but damned if it isn't true. Consider me corrected. I will say that this news will not keep me from using Wolf. I have never had a problem with it in any of my guns, and I have always found it to be reliable ammo.
 
I've ran about 3K rounds of Wolf polymer through my AR. So far I have had no FTF's, not FTE's and my face has not been glued to the stock. It's went bang every time. I do, however, still get that annoying SPROOOIIIING.
 
yes, Dionysus, i have. yes, steel gets hotter, expands longer, and cools slower than brass. yes, wet , or gooey, you leave traces of that crap in your chamber, when the shell is dragged out of there. Then , when you push a new round in , that new rounds puts tiny bits of that stuff, farther, and farther up, until you have it in your bbl, and you go to shoot again, and it gets gooey, real quick, again. yes, with a pair of just powerful bifocals, you can see traces of it, in the throat area.
 
How is Wolf non-standard?
Click to expand...

TimboKhan, steel cases and the green coating is not standard to what the rifle was designed for.
I'm glad DPMS got back to you on the issue of Wolf voiding the warranty. If I thought it was untrue, I wouldn't have posted it. Anyway, I can't say I blame them.
I own a 16" Armalite and only feed it brass cased ammunition. It runs like a champ too.

--meathammer
 
TimboKhan - they sort of contradict themselves. The new production is not lacquered - it has a polymer coating.

I have not shot 1000's of rounds but the few hundred I have shot have been fine with no issues. I am taking a class in a few weeks and will burn though 700 rounds of Wolf then. We'll see but I am not overly worried.
 
How can DPMS really tell that you shot Wolf ammo in your AR unless you told them that you did?
Click to expand...

I would imagine they couldn't. It's good to note that many manufacturers seem to have it out for Wolf ammo. I think pretty much all manufacturers discourage .308 steel cased ammo, although I know many people that shoot it all day long in their FAL's without issue.

So, aside from the lacquer issue which MAY have been an issue in the PAST with SOME rifles and is no longer relevant anyway with the polymer coating, it seems like most people overwhelmingly agree that Wolf is at a minimum not harmful to your AR.

I have 2000 rounds on the way, BTW. :)
 
mmike,

Good question. If, as has been suggested, the laquer has worked it's way into the chamber and/or barrel, I imagine they could make a pretty accurate diagnosis. But, for crying out loud, it's laquer! You can clean that stuff off, you know. Having shot lots of corrosive laquered ammo through my Mosin, I can say from experience that it's not that hard to get out. Also as I said, I will continue to happily shoot Wolf through my AR, which is a Bushmaster, not a DPMS.

yes, steel gets hotter, expands longer, and cools slower than brass
Click to expand...

I am not a physicist, but if I were, I would think that the law of thermodynamics would refute this claim. If it gets hotter faster, then it must also cool faster than brass. I will likely get a ton of flack from the scientists here on THR, but I would think that this law would cover this idea:

Zeroth law of thermodynamics, stating that thermodynamic equilibrium is an equivalence relation.
If two thermodynamic systems are separately in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are also in thermal equilibrium with each other
Click to expand...
 
makes me not want a dpms. if factory yammo is substandard i wouldn't be able to shoot as much as i want. by the way my ar loves it. but it's a john paul's kitchen table and not a dpms! the only problem i've ever heard of from someone i actually shoot with is his 9mm didn't like the wolf. but he said the red sealant was the problem. since he makes his living as a gunsmith i'll take his word for it.
 
IMO Wolf is not high quality ammo. As has already been said, it is smelly, dirty, not particularly accurate, and underpowered. With that said, the case dimensions are usually in-spec for a 5.56 chamber, and the rounds are of sufficient power to cycle the action of the AR. My opinion is that an AR that will not run with Wolf is not properly constructed.

vanfunk
 
I agree that Wolf is not the best ammo on the market. I thinks it's fine for casual plinking and even training sessions. I have literally put 5,000 rounds of wolf through my AR's over the last few years. Never had any probelms with the wolf.

It is dirty and smells bad and I like to clean immediately after a range session, but none of my rifles are any worse for the wear. It runs fine through all of them from the 7 1/2 inch sbr to the 24 " bull barrell.
 
I regularly shoot .223 Wolf through my mini-14 with no problems and I just broke in my new Bushmaster with 100 rounds of Wolf black box. I worked real well.

All I can say is I'll NEVER buy a DPMS rifle and I'm in the market for another one... If they actually gave that lame excuse about lacquer and think they can void a warranty just because you shoot Wolf ammo in their precious rifle, that's one company I will stay far away from.

Whatever caliber ammo I'm buying, I'll take a look and see if Wolf is available. It's usually the cheapest and I love the stuff. Gee whiz, I get 500 rounds of 45 ACP for 90 dollars and my 45's love it.
 
I have a new AR that I ran a few mags of Wolf through a few weeks ago. Not a single malfunction. Today I tried to shoot more ammo out of the same case as before with the AR. Short cycling every time, then it jammed. Thought it might be the ammo, but it sure did work fine before in this gun. Got home and got it apart...and found that the gas block was misaligned...my own fault. I'm pretty sure when I get this thing back to the range it'll be working fine again with that dirty 'ol Wolf ammo.
 
BTW, I have a bunch of the 'Military Classic' stuff. What is the difference between this and the other Wolf ammo? Anybody know? Is it laquer coated?

And a bit off topic, but it seems that my Mini-14 sometimes doesn't get the spent Wolf cartridges all the way out. It also doesn't throw them 10+ feet away when it does clear them...they drop right at my feet. I'm thinking the previous owner may have changed the gas port bushing.
 
Well, I've done classes where Wolf worked well and just did a class where Wolf failed horribly. The major difference I can tell (both barrels were 5.56mm NATO chrome-lined Bushmaster chambers) is that in the failure class, the rate of fire and heat was much higher. Cases were getting stuck in there very seriously.

The shooter had cleaned his rifle in the morning and again at lunch. Despite that when we broke the rifle open after a drill with multiple stuck cases, the fouling was just unbelievable. Initially I thought it was parts of the rifle that had broken into smaller pieces; but it was some kind of weird plasticized carbon gunk that was hard as a rock and all over the rifle and chamber.

The shooter cleaned the rifle well (wore out a new chamber brush doing it). We checked the chamber and he loaded up with Wolf again. Within 100 rounds, it was getting stuck cases again as the heat built up.

I've got to say that after seeing the fouling in this rifle, I would just never use Wolf in one of my rifles.
 
The shooter cleaned the rifle well (wore out a new chamber brush doing it). We checked the chamber and he loaded up with Wolf again. Within 100 rounds, it was getting stuck cases again as the heat built up.

I've got to say that after seeing the fouling in this rifle, I would just never use Wolf in one of my rifles.
Click to expand...

Well again, in my brief experience, 100 rounds of Wolf through a new Bush Master, I didn't see _any_ excessive fouling. It has long run flawlessly through my mini-14.

Frankly, I like to shoot and can't afford to not run Wolf Ammo. If I had problems, I wouldn't use it and probably order that Lee Reloading set I have my eye on but for every 1,000 rounds of Wolf I shoot, I usually save 50 - 100dollars over brass cased ammo. That's adds up to serious money and I'm very happy Wolf is available.
 
Shot Wolf out of a friend's RRA this weekend. It smelled funny -- then I realized I was expecting it to smell like my M16 (military issue ammo only), but it smelled like my SKS firing Barnaul or Wolf. Must be the propellant, I think.

Functioned fine. Not terribly accurate, though.
 
It groups poorly. 6 - 8 inches in my pencil weight AR with course iron sights (it is not built to be a one hole gun), and shoots to a different POI than handloads or Radway Green.

But it always goes bang, is no more dirty than any other ammo, and is a lot cheaper.

Extractors are cheap. And if I ever wear out a chamber, I can buy a new barrel with all the savings.
 
Like others, I ran into no problems shooting Wolf from my RRA w/ Wilde chamber. Accuracy is bad, compared to commercial PMP or to my own home-rolled stuff. It burns dirtier than most, but not a problem, it cleans up as easy as anything else. As sixgunner points out, it's stinky, too.

As to steel case in a steel chamber, I think the only thing that touches the chamber is lacquer. Anyway, the chamber looks fine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
9mm AR build questons
Replies
2
Views
346
Captain33036
C
T
  • Locked
wolf mag primers for 308 AR type rifle?
Replies
0
Views
445
-tmo-
T
G
  • Locked
Official (?) DPMS AP4 Carbine Thread
Replies
2
Views
517
Kind of Blued
K
Bobson
  • Locked
.375 H&H Magnum
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
Winchester101
W
S
  • Locked
Versus vs Versus : Challenge
2
Replies
28
Views
1K
LUPUS
L
Back
Top