i know this has been debated 100 times before, but i,ve heard so much about the 45acp being the end all, in terms of one shot stop power, my question is this, since the 40s&w is pretty darn close in weight when you consider a higher grained round above 180gr of 40s&w, would'nt this round be pretty damn close if not more punchier because of the added velocity? im talking one shot knock down power, im curious as to why the 45acp is still more widely used than the 40s&w, i know bigger is better, so is the 40 always going to follow in the shadows of the 45, and im not an advocate for either, i love them both just curious?
One shot stopping power 40s&w vs 45acp
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General Geoff
Member
.40S&W is far more popular in law enforcement these days than .45ACP, last I checked. The .40S&W also provides a bit more muzzle energy depending on the loadouts, than .45ACP.
Or you could skip the whole debate and bow down to 10mm Auto, which is the Hand of God.
Or you could skip the whole debate and bow down to 10mm Auto, which is the Hand of God.
sig228
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crebralfix
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Are you really asking this question...again??? Please use the search feature....
Do you really think the difference matters?
Do you really think the difference matters?
thx sig 228
thx sig 228 for that informative answer,you see not every body ''new'' to this forum has 768 post or something like that, and spends that much time in this forum, and last time i checked the same question never, gets answered the same way with so many different points of view &people becoming new members all the time,...oh i almost forgot this is a forum right?
thx sig 228 for that informative answer,you see not every body ''new'' to this forum has 768 post or something like that, and spends that much time in this forum, and last time i checked the same question never, gets answered the same way with so many different points of view &people becoming new members all the time,...oh i almost forgot this is a forum right?
Matt-J2
Member
I'm such a big fan of one shot stops that I always shoot bad guys 4-6 times. I like them to be at least 4x as stopped as the leading bad guy.
RNB65
Member
No such thing with a handgun.
Treo
member
I would think there would be waaaay to many variables for a difinetive answer. Bullet weight, how hot are you loading it? Shot place ment. JHP or FMJ , ETC. ETC ETC.
I personally put my .45 ACP up in favor of a .40 S&W for EDC & if I ever have to use either pistol, I'm going to fight exactly the way I was trained; Aim center mass & shoot till he's on the ground. I expect it will take more than one shot to get there.
I personally put my .45 ACP up in favor of a .40 S&W for EDC & if I ever have to use either pistol, I'm going to fight exactly the way I was trained; Aim center mass & shoot till he's on the ground. I expect it will take more than one shot to get there.
ThinBlueLine641
Member
Where are you shooting the enemy? Chest, head, foot, leg? If you're a good enough shot a 22Lr will do the trick. Who will ever shoot once, in defense, with any pistol and expect results? 40 or 45? Fire both, pick your favorite and go with that. If you can put 3 in the chest, it won't matter.
Where's a better place to vacation, the gulf coast or the west coast? Who cares, you're at the beach!
Where's a better place to vacation, the gulf coast or the west coast? Who cares, you're at the beach!
lazyeye
Member
In cases recorded by Evan Marshall of one stop shot incidents with a shot to the torso...
.40 S&W
Remington 165gr Golden Saber - 94% of one shot incidents produced a one shot stop
.45ACP
230gr Hydrashok and 185gr Golden Saber - 96% of one shot incidents produced a one shot stop
Evan Marshall, Edwin Sanow
"Stopping Power, A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition"
2001, Paladin Press
.40 S&W
Remington 165gr Golden Saber - 94% of one shot incidents produced a one shot stop
.45ACP
230gr Hydrashok and 185gr Golden Saber - 96% of one shot incidents produced a one shot stop
Evan Marshall, Edwin Sanow
"Stopping Power, A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition"
2001, Paladin Press
theken206
Member
one shot stopping power = 155 HE from the palidin
Whichever one you can place the mostest, the fastest to the bread basket. The biggest caliber you can pull this off with is the one I'd go with.
The Marshall and Sanow data, while "real life" also throws out a lot of real life...ie anything where there are multiple hits to the torso yet with failure to stop are thrown out. I'd like to know this data, as well as the number of times the BG was stopped with one shot.
Since you are using a caliber that starts with a 4, I'd just pick the one you shoot the best, run with it, and spend a lot of time at the range.
The Marshall and Sanow data, while "real life" also throws out a lot of real life...ie anything where there are multiple hits to the torso yet with failure to stop are thrown out. I'd like to know this data, as well as the number of times the BG was stopped with one shot.
Since you are using a caliber that starts with a 4, I'd just pick the one you shoot the best, run with it, and spend a lot of time at the range.
chieftain
Member
Stated by a SEAL team officer when asked why the SEAL's still used the SIG 226 in 9mm for their primary sidearm:
"If I place two in your chest and one in your head, what difference will caliber make?"
It's about software, not hardware.
Mindset, Training, Practice and experience. Then get a reliable platform that either fits you or can be adapted to you, not you to it.
The good news is today there are several to choose from. I then recommend you get that platform in the caliber it was originally designed for, and you develop your ability to TOTALLY and properly maintain it. Then Following 'Swede' Swensen's old rule, get a second one. "Carry one," shoot one.
Now after all of the above, if caliber is still your question, I don't think you really understand the problem.
Go figure.
Fred
"If I place two in your chest and one in your head, what difference will caliber make?"
It's about software, not hardware.
Mindset, Training, Practice and experience. Then get a reliable platform that either fits you or can be adapted to you, not you to it.
The good news is today there are several to choose from. I then recommend you get that platform in the caliber it was originally designed for, and you develop your ability to TOTALLY and properly maintain it. Then Following 'Swede' Swensen's old rule, get a second one. "Carry one," shoot one.
Now after all of the above, if caliber is still your question, I don't think you really understand the problem.
Go figure.
Fred
theken206
Member
"Now after all of the above, if caliber is still your question, I don't think you really understand the problem."
agreed
agreed
Frizzman
Member
The one shot stop debate is only useful if you carry a single shot...I prefer .69 to .36 caliber in my horse pistols...
ZeSpectre
Member
Which right there shows a fundamental lack of understanding about the topic.
"One stop shot" has, sometimes, happened.
Maybe because it was that perfect shot to the forehead or maybe because the psychology of being shot caused the badguy to go "oh ****, I've been shot" and he goes into psychological shock.
However it is not a consistent, reliable, or even likely event with anything that comes in a handgun package and debating this non-event only re-enforces a false (and potentially dangerous) mindset. In short I would respectfully suggest you forget the entire concept of "one shot stop" and try to shift your thinking to more tactically viable considerations.
MCgunner
Member
As a concealed carry civilian, I do not worship at the alter of the one shot stop. If I did, I'd not carry either of these pip squeaks. I'd tote a magnum revolver, .357 or better, or a .45 Colt with +P, already have a Ruger Blackhawk in the caliber. I could push a 200 grain bullet at probably 1500 fps or more out of that gun. But, I carry what is convenient and practice to put the bullet where it counts. I carry a 9. It's a very accurate pocket gun and easy to carry all day. You won't find a .45 in such a weapon, the cartridge is just too big. You might not mind a 40 ounce gun IWB all day, but I do. I cannot carry IWB all day every day. Pocket is much more convenient.
From .380 up, just buy the gun you like and learn to shoot it. Don't rely on caliber to make up for inability to hit your target.
From .380 up, just buy the gun you like and learn to shoot it. Don't rely on caliber to make up for inability to hit your target.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
The new guys haven't been around for the discussions.... That is why you received very good advice when you were told to use the SEARCH function when you apparently knew that this question had been asked "100 times before".
And no, the same question doesn't get answered the same way every time.... But the one that you posed gets answered the same way 99% of the time.... ""SHOT PLACEMENT"
lazyeye
Member
One shot stops are a measurement of effectiveness, not a tactical philosophy.
The FBI's own studies of shootings shows the only one-shot-stop to be a spine or brain shot, regardless of caliber...numerous examples of felons soaking up multiple hits of .357/.44/.45/.40 and never even slowing down....the same holds true with hunting.....the end.
Phil DeGraves
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One shot stop is a function of bullet placement and the opponents mental attitude. As long as it meets a minimum standard, which both cartridges you mention meet, caliber is largely irrelevant.
fletcher
Member
Big +1 to this. The situations in which you are likely to use a handgun are not likely to lend themselves to precision CNS shots, which are about the only way you would see consistency in a "one shot stop".
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