Ammo selection. 40S&W, what it is and what it is not.

[TestPilot]

People tend to think of it in terms of relationship between 9mm Parabellum and 45ACP, thinking that it is intended to be a caliber that is a compromise between the two.

While the "compromise" design aspect may be true in some regards, it does not apply to all aspects, especially ones that are important. For a shooter, what 40S&W WAS INTENDED TO BE does not matter. Only thing that does matter is WHAT IT IS. Most complaints about 40S&W comes from misunderstanding of what 40S&W is.

So, is 40S&W a compromise caliber intended to blend between 9mm Parabellum and 45ACP?

The answer: ONLY in dimensional aspects, such as bullet size/weight, and capacity.

That is where the "balance between 9mm and 45ACP" ends.

Among people who complain about 40S&W, the largest portion of them complains about excessive recoil or "snappiness." In my view, that is a very natural consequence of people generally viewing 40S&W as "in between 9mm and 45ACP" caliber. As far as controllability goes, 40S&W is nothing of the kind. If you look at ballistics chart of combat ammo manufacturers, such as Speer, this will become quickly evident. The power level of 40S&W is not in between 9mm and 45ACP. It is actually just as, and often more, powerful than 45ACP.

Considering that majority of 45ACP shooters use the standard pressure 230gr, pretty much most 40S&W would be actually more powerful in defense loads.

We cannot blame the ammo manufacturers for this. The power level between 9mm and 45ACP is not that great, so if the goal is to make an ammo more powerful than 9mm, then it would naturally end up being same or close to 45ACP, and the design goal was not to go higher, as was the case with 10mm.

That means, with a 40S&W, you will generally end up shooting a ammo that is just as, and often more, powerful as 45ACP out of a gun that are generally dimensionally smaller and lighter.

That can be good news to people such as myself, who wants to fire the most powerful ammo I can still manage out of a gun that is not bigger than average 9mm pistol dimensions. 45ACP/10mm pistols generally do not fit me well or have too low ammo capacity.

However, if you are looking for something a little more powerful than 9mm, but more controllable than 45ACP, do not choose a 40S&W for that reason. It is nothing of the kind.

 

[Gtscotty]

I'd have to agree with your take on the .40, when looking at the numbers it always reminds me more of .44 special (with lighter bullets) or mid grade .357 mag than 9mm.

 

[GLOOB]

As a reloader, I have noticed that out of short barrels, 40SW muzzle velocities are fairly similar to 357 using 150-180 gr bullet weights. In many cases, the 40SW powder charges are actually higher.

 

[ExGM]

Great post Test Pilot! You should post it on every gun board in cyberspace!

I am so tired of the internet clichés that go something like this:
“With modern ammunition the 9mm is just as effective the .40…(yada, yada, yada)”
Or:
“.40 offers nothing over the .45ACP…(yada, yada, yada)”

Long ago, I learned during my post-graduate education that there’s no free lunch in physics.
During my 20+ years of urban law-enforcement, I was glad to move from 5-6 rounds of .38 Special to 10-16 rounds of .40 S&W (With interim stops at 9mm/.45).
The price you pay for the .45 ACP’s advantage over the 9mm is larger guns with lower capacity.
The price you pay for the .40 S&W’s advantage over both the 9mm and .45ACP is snappier recoil.

Of the three, the .40 delivers the most pound-for pound, but it’s not for everyone:
New, undertrained, and casual shooters wanting a semi-auto concealment weapon are well served by a 9mm.
The military, with less need to conceal their handguns, and when limited to non-expanding ammo could be well served with a .45ACP. (It looks like the Marine Corps brass concur.)

The pecking order perhaps should go more like this (roughly, from bottom up): 9mm & .38 Special / .45ACP / .40S&W & .357 SIG / .357 Mag. / 10mm & .41 Mag. / .44 Mag.

 

[Potatohead]

Interesting thread. Will be watching closely. thanks

 

[TanklessPro]

I actually liked that people hate on 40. During the last ammo madness, I could still by boxes of 40fmj for $16. Hate on haters.
I look at all calibers the same. It would hurt to be shot by anything from a 22 to 44 mag. Yes one may hurt more that the other but they all will hurt. The only person that can say any round is not a good SD round has to be willing to stand on the receiving end.
Not many would be willing.

Good post.

 

[David E]

The current ammo shortage shows why getting only common calibers, like 9mm, can bite you in the butt.

Of course, it's always a good idea to stock up, regardless of caliber.

 

[herrwalther]

In the 4 handguns chambered in .40 I have owned or fired in the last decade, I have found that the snappy recoil can be tamed a little bit by going from 180gr to 155-165gr bullets.

 

[KY Sparky]

Long ago, I learned during my post-graduate education that there’s no free lunch in physics.

Great thread, will definitely be watching this one! I also have a physics degree and I know exactly what you mean. The .40 would be a fun way to explain Newton's 3 laws to someone . I carry a .40 and am quite pleased with it and I don't feel like I am at any disadvantage by not having a .45. Ballistics By The Inch has some good data to compare the 3 rounds. The .40 easily exceeds .45 in several loads in terms of energy and velocity. It is definitely its own animal, and I like it.

 

[Kahr33556]

I just bought a 40 only because thats the only ammo I can find at walmart

 

[Robert101]

The 45automatic is a very good handgun round. With good quality expansive ammo it is really hard to beat. In the low velocity handgun world the 230 grain bullet is very effective and penetrates soft objects well. It sure will put down poppers with authority. No 9mm will come close in that regard. My main problem with the 45 is lack of barrier penetration. To this I feel the 40 S&W is superior with adequate expansion. So is it a compromise? Sure. I shot both regularly. I do feel the 40 is sandwiched between the 45 and 9. If you want to talk about the other 10mm then that is in an elevated class. Before anyone starts to quote numbers keep in mind that many large bore rifle rounds far exceed small caliber rifle rounds in killing power on big game for good reason.

 

[JDR]

I just bought a 40 only because thats the only ammo I can find at walmart

I bought my .40s for much the same reason. Used .40 guns are usually cheaper than the same model in 9mm.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I've always liked the .40. More capacity than a .45, more power than a 9mm.
I do love 9mm as well though.
And my next auto handgun will likely be a .45 acp.

I love em all.

But I agree that the naysayers who say the .40 is underpowered are fooling themselves. I've got a buddy who is a HUGE .45 fanboy, and there's nothing wrong with that, its awesome. But he is so to the point of thinking that using anything else is risking complete failure. :banghead:

 

[SDGlock23]

Good post, the .40 is probably my favorite semi auto cartridge, second being the .45 but I like to shoot them all and own other calibers as well.

I've long said that for the size firearm, I'm not sure the .40 can be beat. Having shot and handloaded for a number a cartridges, what's interesting to me is that if you compare a warm .40 to a warm 10mm of comparable barrel length and pressure, there isn't a whole lot of difference. By not a whole lot I mean generally around 100 fps, maybe up to 150 fps with the heavies and maybe less than 100 fps with others.

For instance with Longshot out of my G23 I have chronographed 180gr bullets between 1150-1200 fps, and keep in mind that's from a 4" barrel. A G29 10mm has about the same barrel length and while it can exceed 1200 fps with a 180gr, and with a real warm load could possibly get close to 1300 fps, that's still not a huge difference (1150-1200 vs 1250-1300), plus the G23 is lighter, thinner and holds more ammo. Add to that, most 180gr JHP bullets are designed around typical factory .40 S&W velocity, and at warm .40 levels are being pushed even to the point of bullet fatigue/failure, so going even faster generally proves to be useless for most designs as they're simply not intended to be driven that fast. The .40 has a LOT going for it.

 

[decoy562]

I've always thought 40 S&W was snappier than 9mm and 45 ACP. To me, 45 ACP was pleasant to shoot as it's more of a push than a snap to me.

My glock 23 was my first gun.