Ongoing trouble with 30-30 sizing/decapping dies

[coondogger]

I tumbled, cleaned and lubricated (Lee case lubricant) some once fired 30-30 cases. I know the provenance of the cases; factory loads fired my own rifle. None of them could be run through the sizing/decapping die except by force sufficient to damage the case. I bought another die, cleaned it and lightly lubricated it with Rem Oil. Same problem. The cases are the same. The lubricant is the same. The two dies are identically adjusted vis a vis the pin. I have other Lee dies in a variety of calibers from 38 to 45-70 and not a single problem with any of them. This is the strangest and most frustrating thing I've seen in quite a few years of reloading.

 

[Jonny2guns]

Did you lube the brass before attempting to resize?

 

[Ethan Verity]

Deleted

 

[garandsrus]

What do you mean they couldn't be run through the die? The cases won't enter the die? The case won't size completely? What was the case damage? What do you mean the die was adjusted "vis a vis the pin"? Does the press completely cam over with the die and shell holder in place but no case?

I have never used Lee case lube so can't comment on that. Do you normally use that lube?

As you probably figured, 30-30 cases should be easy to size. Lee dies are fine.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Rem oil is not a good case lube. Some Lee dies I've had have a rough mandrel. Try resizing without the expander to see if is the die or the mandrel that is the problem.

 

[EricBu]

Uhh, Rem Oil is a gun lube, not a case lube. 30-30 is a bottle neck rifle...regardless of the type of dies you're using, you MUST use a quality case lube to size them. Wrong types can plug the vent, and hydro lock a die, or will not provide sufficient lubricant to size the die correctly. Use a quality case lube, and follow the directions it comes with (ie, if it says to let it dry...then let it dry).

 

[BBarn]

Remove the decapping pin spindle from the sizing die and see if you can size the case using your Lee lube and post what you find.

 

[PapaG]

Use a good lube designed for cases by a major manufacturer. Most lee stuff is ok but their case lube, IMO, is weak. I've used RCBS lube on an ink pad since 1955. I recently discovered Imperial Sizing Die Wax. Wow! One shot isn't great either.

 

[JmacD]

Imperial sizing wax or unique case lube. Had similar issues at one point…that fixed it.

 

[.308 Norma]

I bought another die, cleaned it and lightly lubricated it with Rem Oil.

I understand that you "lightly lubricated" the DIE - that you didn't use Rem Oil for case lube. But why lubricate the DIE at all? I spray a little oil of some kind on my dies and wipe them down just to protect them from rust. I'd hardly call that lubrication though.

None of them could be run through the sizing/decapping die except by force sufficient to damage the case.

What do you mean by "damage the case?" What kind of damage?

I know the provenance of the cases; factory loads fired my own rifle.

Is this the first time you've resized cases fired in that rifle?

I have other Lee dies in a variety of calibers from 38 to 45-70 and not a single problem with any of them. This is the strangest and most frustrating thing I've seen in quite a few years of reloading.

It sounds like you've probably had a lot of years experience with Lee dies. I myself have never owned but one Lee die (a factory crimp die) in 45 years of reloading. And I never even use that die. So, I'll take your word about never having a problem with Lee dies.

 

[Bazoo]

Sounds like rough Lee dies to me. Have a buddy that had a similar experience. Switching to RCBS dies solved his issues.

You could polish the die out with some 1000 grit paper turned on a dowel or cleaning tip in a drill.

 

[Charlie98]

One shot isn't great either.

Actually, OneShot is fine... but you must read and heed the directions.

What do you mean by "damage the case?" What kind of damage?

It almost sounds like the expander ball is too high, or too low. Or the wrong size.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I use One Shot almost exclusively these days. As mentioned, follow directions, let it dry, and it works great.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I tumbled, cleaned and lubricated (Lee case lubricant) some once fired 30-30 cases. I know the provenance of the cases; factory loads fired my own rifle. None of them could be run through the sizing/decapping die except by force sufficient to damage the case. I bought another die, cleaned it and lightly lubricated it with Rem Oil. Same problem. The cases are the same. The lubricant is the same. The two dies are identically adjusted vis a vis the pin. I have other Lee dies in a variety of calibers from 38 to 45-70 and not a single problem with any of them. This is the strangest and most frustrating thing I've seen in quite a few years of reloading.

The last time around you were advised to pull the decapping pin completely and try resizing using a case lube like Imperial or One Shot. Did you ever try that?

 

[coondogger]

The last time around you were advised to pull the decapping pin completely and try resizing using a case lube like Imperial or One Shot. Did you ever try that?

No. This involved two different sizing dies; one old and one brand new. The likelihood of both having a pin or spindle problem would be very long odds indeed. Further, I've been using the same case lubricant for a variety of other calibers; none of which presented any problem sizing and decapping. That meant that the only possibility was the application of the lubricant being more critical with a necked cartridge like 30-30. That is exactly what the problem was. That said, I'm still going to experiment with some other case lubes such as One Shot or Imperial which people on this forum seem to favor. Ek wil om graag na almal vir hulle raad baie dankie te se!

 

[Hugger-4641]

wil om graag na almal vir hulle raad baie dankie te se!

You are very welcome.

When I use One Shot, I lay about 5 to 10 cases facing me on a shop towel. I spray at a downward 45% angle so that I get just a little in the mouth of the case. T hen I roll the cases 180%, repeat, then let dry for 5 to 10 min while my Intellidropper is warming up. Never had a problem after doing this.

 

[JohnMc]

Ek wil om graag na almal vir hulle raad baie dankie te se!

Afrikaans?

While I don't happen to like Lee case lube, it does work. There's something else going on. Definitely follow the advice to remove the decapping and expander ball bits; that removes a variable or two. Cases run through it will not be optimal for loading, because the neck will be too tight, as the expander doesn't get used, aside from maybe still having a spent primer, but troubleshooting is made easier by variable elimination.

For the "Is it plugged in?" type question; the dies have "30/30" stamped on them, right?

 

[carbine85]

One Shot is a great case lubricant. The best is my home made using Lanolin and alcohol in a spray bottle.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I used to use Lee case lube, but when I ran out a few years ago, I picked up some Hornady Unique Case Lube. It was night and day better for bottleneck cases. I use it for everything now, and it goes a long way. I’ve been using the same tub for about three years now.

 

[Artg56]

I learned years ago not to lubricate the Lee die, made it feel rough and tight. Using One Shot and a brush meant for cleaning reusable straws to get just inside the case mouth with no issues.

 

[Bazoo]

No. This involved two different sizing dies; one old and one brand new. The likelihood of both having a pin or spindle problem would be very long odds indeed.

Not when we're talking about Lee dies. Don't get me wrong either, I love some Lee products and use a mess of them, but they can and do have plenty of lemons.

For the record, I use a Lee reloading press, powder measure, melting pot, push through bullet sizing dies, and moulds regularly.

 

[coondogger]

Afrikaans?

While I don't happen to like Lee case lube, it does work. There's something else going on. Definitely follow the advice to remove the decapping and expander ball bits; that removes a variable or two. Cases run through it will not be optimal for loading, because the neck will be too tight, as the expander doesn't get used, aside from maybe still having a spent primer, but troubleshooting is made easier by variable elimination.

For the "Is it plugged in?" type question; the dies have "30/30" stamped on them, right?

They do. LOL

 

[Charlie98]

When I use One Shot, I lay about 5 to 10 cases facing me on a shop towel. I spray at a downward 45% angle so that I get just a little in the mouth of the case. T hen I roll the cases 180%, repeat, then let dry for 5 to 10 min while my Intellidropper is warming up. Never had a problem after doing this.

That's basically my operation... except I lay about 75 cases out on a cookie sheet, all facing towards me... like in your photo... and make 2 passes. The first pass gets in the case mouth and hits the shoulder, the second pass gets the shoulder and ALL of the body. Every time I've stuck a case it was because I didn't have enough lube down around the base. I don't even roll them 180^, but I do lay it on pretty heavy... repeated stuck cases will do that.

Further... and maybe I'm alone here... but the last case I stuck (.308) was because I didn't shoot the sizer die beforehand... that makes a HUGE difference. I have 2 .308 sizers (for just this occurance...) so I pulled the other one out, gave it a shot, let it dry... and sizing the rest of the cases was no problem. Just food for thought.

 

[W.E.G.]

I've never lubricated a die in preparation for use.

I once had some LEE lube which was sticky, and absolutely horrible to handle, and which was a complete fail for sizing rifle brass. I have no idea what was wrong with it. I threw the LEE lube away and never bought any more.

Switched to RCBS product, and smoot sailing for the last 40 years.

Apply RCBS Case Lube II to fingers

Wipe thin film on cases

Resize cases

Rinse lube off cases with hot water

Works great with 30-30 and other bottleneck rifle calibers

 

[41 Mag]

I tumbled, cleaned and lubricated (Lee case lubricant) some once fired 30-30 cases. I know the provenance of the cases; factory loads fired my own rifle. None of them could be run through the sizing/decapping die except by force sufficient to damage the case. I bought another die, cleaned it and lightly lubricated it with Rem Oil. Same problem. The cases are the same. The lubricant is the same. The two dies are identically adjusted vis a vis the pin. I have other Lee dies in a variety of calibers from 38 to 45-70 and not a single problem with any of them. This is the strangest and most frustrating thing I've seen in quite a few years of reloading.

Well I read through your initial post, as well as all here. I have been loading since the 70's and I've ruined cases in all manners through the years. The overall thing I see here is using the wrong lube and possibly not having the die set properly. Either one will give you headaches galore.

My approach would be to find some premium sizing lube as mentioned above. I primarily use Imperial sizing wax or the Hornady equivalent. That said I have also used saddle soap from Wallyworld in a pinch. The key ingredient is the lanolin. (for reference - ( https://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Sizing ) Honestly I found not a bit of difference in the saddle soap verses the Imperial or Hornady.

That said, bottle necked cases are different than straight walled in they require lube but not excessive, and certainly not oil. I would suggest cleaning the die, removing the decap pin completely, Use some brake cleaner or such to clean the oil out prior. Then take a q-tip and swirl just a touch of the actual case lube around the inside of the die up into the neck sizing area as well. Might have to go from both ends. Once that is done, then slather a bit of case lube in one palm and run your hands together. If you can see a slight film that's probably more than enough, it goes a long ways. Lay a couple of cases in one hand and roll them back and forth a couple of times. Start by running the case into the die a little at a time until your just above the neck or actually touching it. You should be able to see where the neck is being sized pretty easily. Once there lock it down and re-insert the decap pin and set it just deep enough to clear the primer from the case and lock it in.

I process a LOT of 30-30 cases shooting the standard 30-30, and 30-30 AI and necking them down and forming 7x30 Waters from them. They are thin and do not put up with much misuse. They will collapse in a heartbeat. That said using a good sizing lube and not over setting the die you should be good to go.