Open Carry at Mall

[AxGrinder]

I visited the Spokane Valley Mall in Washington state and noticed a sign that says " The use of firearms is prohibited". I looked at WA. laws and I didn't see anything that said I had to obey this sign. The mall is owned by GGP (General Growth Properties), I looked on their website but didn't see anything about mall rules or it specifically saying it was privately owned. If I conceal carry no one knows so no problem, but what about open carry? And whats the proper way to find out before hand?

 

[wgaynor]

Odd wording... if your wearing it, your not using it.

 

[Sam1911]

I'd imagine that USE of a firearm would indeed be prohibited by more than just mall policy! Yikes!

It is also prohibited on Main Street down town, and in your own back yard if you live within city limits.

I tend to think of those signs as "cleverly" worded. It doesn't mean what it SEEMS to mean to most folks, but it probably makes some people feel safer.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

“No Firearm” signs in Washington have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law.

Source of quote, page 5:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/washington.pdf


HOWEVER, it is generally recommended that you do NOT enter such a place that is posted.


Even though the sign itself my not have the "force of law", all that really means is that you cannot be charged with a firearms violation when you violate it because there is no specific statute regarding it. That said, it does NOT protect you from any particular trespassing laws that might apply. If you are asked to leave and you do not, then you are guilty of trespassing.

That said, in a few states there are some provisions in their trespassing laws wherein the owner of the property may set any conditions they wish with respect to who is and is not allowed on the property. (Laws regarding such matters as race and such not withstanding, of course.)

This means that the trespassing laws of those states can automatically be invoked by the simple posting of "no firearms allowed" signs. In such states, those signs DO carry the weight of law...as applies to trespassing. It's not a specific firearms related violation, but it IS enforceable by law.


BOTTOM LINE:

Don't violate the signs, take your business elsewhere, and let the owners know you're doing so and why.

 

[rondog]

Why on Earth would you want to OC in a mall? Legal or not, that's like dumping a bucket of grief over your head.

 

[rondog]

Y'all go ahead. I'll keep mine covered up, thanks.

 

[Mainsail]

I once carried openly at the Tacoma Mall. I came in through one of the anchor stores, spent some time there in the shoe department. The store security asked if was willing to put it in the car, I said I would not and asked if he wanted me to leave, he said no. We left there and went into the mall proper and stopped at the Hallmark, bought some cards, and left.

Most malls are posted in tiny print on a sign about mall rules, but not at the anchor stores.

 

[tommy.duncan]

I carry concealed at malls all the time. I never open carry. You don't want to bring attention to yourself if you don't have to.

 

[mbogo]

Try it. You cannot be arrested for doing so, although if asked to leave by security and refuse to do so, they might be able to file a trespassing complaint against you (check your local and state laws).

Behave normally, and you just might find that is a non-issue.

mbogo

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

Hey, a fellow spokanite. Um try Northtown Mall up division they actually had a gun store there until they moved to another location.

 

[md2lgyk]

Why on Earth would you want to OC in a mall? Legal or not, that's like dumping a bucket of grief over your head.

I couldn't agree more. Just because you have the right (and I do where I live) doesn't mean it's always wise or prudent to exercise it everywhere. You can say all you want about it being the other people's problem if it bothers them to see OC; I prefer a little discretion and lack of hassle. I believe I'm in the majority. In nearly 15 years of living here, I've yet to see a single person open carrying.

 

[beatledog7]

I believe I'm in the majority. In nearly 15 years of living here, I've yet to see a single person open carrying.

Being in the majority doesn't make you right either.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Why would you want to go to a mall in the first place~have it shipped.
I can't wait till the CCW fun begins here in IL-when the 'mall types' catch sight of those printing and peeking pistols and freak out.

Seriously, it's a right to open carry in many places, but the easily upset of the world (many of who like shopping malls) will likely freak out.
Lots of potential hastle~ likely all smoke and no fire from a legal standpoint-but I'd skip it unless I had a compoelling reason to do otherwise.

 

[gondorian]

I can't wait till the CCW fun begins here in IL-when the 'mall types' catch sight of those printing and peeking pistols and freak out.

It will also be fun to try and spot people carrying after only seeing them in other states.

 

[MedWheeler]

Beatledog7 writes:

Being in the majority doesn't make you right either.

.. to this:

I believe I'm in the majority. In nearly 15 years of living here, I've yet to see a single person open carrying.

And exactly how is he wrong? He's just saying he prefers to carry concealed, and has never seen anyone carrying openly in the mall(s) near him. You're challenging that?

 

[Bruno2]

OC or CC is up to the person or the laws. The thing about CC is that out of sight out of mind means a couple of things: 1) a firearm being hidden leaves it to the imagination of who is armed and who is not and that may not deter a criminal from practicing their profession. However, it doesn't bother the gun haters if they cant see it.2) OC does deter a lot of criminals that are afraid of gun play while practicing their craft, but it does freak out the gun haters. Although there are pros and cons to the CC vs OC debate. It is a right that I feel should be practiced. It should be practiced to show it is necessary because some people like to do it and that gives the right a cause rather we need a cause or not. Then again I also feel like it should be practiced to let the rest of the world get acclimated to it as well.

Rondog if you oppose OC that doesn't do us any favors especially of you are on the gun rights side of things. That gives some credibility to those straw polls where the antis make things up like the 90% lie.

 

[rondog]

I don't "oppose" OC, it's just not something I'd be comfortable doing. I live in Colorado, and despite the publicity over our two new laws and the recalls, OC is legal statewide except in Denver and Boulder, and I think one other place - not sure. But just because it's legal here doesn't mean it's common, I can count on one hand the times I've seen it done. I think it's great, but I don't have the nerve to do it. I don't like attention, and I'm not rebellious enough to test my luck "asserting my rights". I'm curious about it, but it really ain't my thing. I certainly have no issue with anyone else doing it!

 

[NavyLCDR]

If I conceal carry no one knows so no problem, but what about open carry? And whats the proper way to find out before hand?

If you look inside the main entrances to the mall, either in the space between the outer doors and inner doors or just inside the inner doors, probably on a wall to the side, you should see a sign with a crapload of small print on it, title "rules of conduct" or something like that. Somewhere in the middle of those rules of conduct will be a prohibition against the possession of any weapon.

Then it is up to you to decide if you will honor that rule or not, and how blatant with your disregard of that rule you will be. If you absolutely cannot find one of the rules of conduct signs, than just obey the limited terms of the sign they posted and don't worry about it.

I'm not saying it is wrong to disregard the rules of conduct on the sign when you find it. I'm just saying it is a choice for you to make how blantantly you want to disregard the rule.

You shouldn't have an issue with real police unless you refuse to leave when asked. In Washington the property owner or agent must give you PROPER notice of their removing their implied invitation of you being on their property. The rules of conduct signs will not be considered proper notice due to the fact that you actually have to actively seek them out to find them. Also, their added sign of "No USE of firearms" would weaken their case, because USE in an entirely different activity than possession is. On my own property, for example, it is illegal for me to USE a firearm (other than self defense).

 

[md2lgyk]

Being in the majority doesn't make you right either.

"Right" for whom? If you want to OC and it's legal where you live, go for it. I choose not to do so for what to me are valid reasons. Who is "right?" We both are.

 

[beatledog7]

Beatledog7 writes:

Quote:
Being in the majority doesn't make you right either.
.. to this:

Quote:
I believe I'm in the majority. In nearly 15 years of living here, I've yet to see a single person open carrying.
And exactly how is he wrong? He's just saying he prefers to carry concealed, and has never seen anyone carrying openly in the mall(s) near him. You're challenging that?

When a person states that he's in the majority he is presumably doing so to make the point that being in the majority somehow equates to being in the right column, placing those who are in the monitory, by his rational, in the wrong column. If that's not the intent, then why point out the majority position at all?

"Right" for whom? If you want to OC and it's legal where you live, go for it. I choose not to do so for what to me are valid reasons. Who is "right?" We both are.

Yes, we both are. I respect everyone's reasons for OCing or not as being valid for that person. See my point just above.

The thing is, those who OC do not usually criticize those who don't, so why do so many non-OCers feel the need to criticize the OCers?

 

[Frank Ettin]

We really don't need another thread on Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry.