Open Carry Dude Robbed of His Gun.

[gordy]

You should get 3 coffins ready!

When I took my CC classes there where a lot of guys that should not have been there. Some people get the permit just to say they have one.
Some get it and never carry a firearm. Some never take a class dealing with a holster. I have seen many a person practice with there gun in there hand. It never goes in a holster. Let alone a CC draw.
I have trained in quite a few classes that deal with CC and by no means am I a expert.
And how many of use could, If we were to have to shoot someone?
We all say that we could. But in till we get there and are in the wrong place and time.
I myself have never been in a situation that I was required to draw my weapon let alone shoot it. And I pray that it never comes to that.
But some of use are like Clint Eastwood in A Fist full of Dollars, (I watched it last night) And can take out 4 guys in less then 5 seconds.
A gun in the hand beats a gun in the pocket or CC holster. Unless your Clint Eastwood. Non of use were there and there for should not judge this Dude.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'm still going to carry openly, if only because this is the first case of stealing an openly carried gun I've ever heard of.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm still going to carry openly, if only because this is the first case of stealing an openly carried gun I've ever heard of.

That's because the majority of felons when interviewed admit they won't mess with a known armed target because they are afraid of getting shot. It's easier for them to steal from unarmed targets and buy guns. And therein lies the problem... the concealed carrier appears to be unarmed.

 

[kirkosaurus]

He should have used a retention holster and been more aware of his surroundings.

According to the video the robber struggled to get the gun out of the holster so the victim had to help him out. Sounds like he was using a retention holster.

 

[JayBird]

Maybe we should outlaw all guns...since someone can steal them from homes too.... ::rolls eyes::

Yes, sure, a gun can be stolen from someone open carrying...Yes, sure, a gun can be stolen from someone concealed carrying...Yes, sure, a gun can be stolen from someones home, car, office, etc, etc...

And the point is?
Should we give up(or not fight for in my instance in FL) the right to open carry? Hell no.

 

[1911Tuner]

Leave YOUR guns at home. You will get them taken away from you too....

Oh, I don;'t intend to leave mine at home. I just don't intend to notify Mongo the Mauler that it's there unless he gives me no alternative. Forewarned being forearmed and all...

Well, now the score is one to one. SEE! THERE IT IS! DON'T CONCEALED CARRY EITHER! LEAVE YOUR GUNS AT HOME! I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO when you get your gun taken from you....

I don't think that was the point, and I don't think that it was intended to suggest or demand that we all refrain from openly carrying. That's a personal choice that each of us has to make after weighing the facts carefully. I don't OC. I don't care if you do. I won't try to convince you not to. Don't try to convince me that I'm wrong by not exercising the right to do it. If I choose not to exercise a right...that's pretty much all the reason that I need. It's a matter of choice...another basic right.

 

[JTH]

If someone gets the drop on you "Do you feel lucky Punk"? What would you do, much has to do with your surroundings but if the pistol is already pointed at you, do you get gutsy and drop and roll and attempt to get to and pull your pistol. I don't think I would. Now if this person didn't pat you down and you had a backup either in a boot or ankle holster it would end up differently. Lot of ifs in this scenario! Sounds like this person was just asking to be robbed.
I still think about a night I left a casino in Shreveport La. with a ganster roll of winnings $8,000 and actually walked to the car garage with this on me w/o any pistol on me. I should have demanded an escort and tipped them nicely. I just kept a very low profile and played probably for 6 hours after winning the money. I guess God looks out for chldren and idiots!
JT

 

[rfwobbly]

The girl in the video describes him by saying 'the whole neighborhood called him "the man with the gun" '. To me he lost all his tactical advantage right there.

If you are held up and you conceal, you have the advantage of picking and choosing your moment. Handing over your wallet and watch first, may put the BG in "condition white". On the other hand, handing over your wallet, watch and gun....

 

[GEM]

I thought it was interesting that the open carry advocate was a rather large man. That might aid in his not being targeted.

However, the issue of the retention holster is interesting. Mr. Giant Carry Man had a Serpa. Well, those have a rep of the under trained shooting themselves with them We've have a couple of match shooting with those. In fact, at a match I saw a beginner struggling so hard with his that the SO grabbed him to avoid the oncoming BOOM!

So if you OC and use a retention holster, you'd better be good or:

1. You can't get the gun. I think the victim said in the tape he had to HELP the BG get his gun.

2. You will amuse the BG by shooting yourself.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't think that was the point

Then what was the point? Why post an eight month old story about an open carrier getting his gun stolen? How many hundreds of armed robberies have there been since then? How many guns have gotten stolen since then? Heck, more cops have gotten guns stolen from them than open carrying Joe Citizens have! But one incident, from 8 months ago is posted and the only difference detectable in that incident is the fact it was someone open carrying.

BTW, in Wisconsin, concealed carry is completely illegal. So, I guess, unless concealed carry passes, going unarmed is a better choice in Wisconsin?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why not post any of these?

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/j...mo-stolen-anderson-county-das-ca/?partner=RSS

http://policelink.monster.com/news/articles/137678-off-duty-officers-gun-stolen-during-carjacking

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/08/city_officers_gun_stolen.html

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/blog/2010/04/harford_sheriffs_deputys_gun_s.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2559137/posts

http://www.examiner.com/strange-news-in-national/potty-larceny-cop-loses-gun-restroom

 

[1911Tuner]

Then what was the point? Why post an eight month old story about an open carrier getting his gun stolen?

I dunno. Conversation and civil discussion and debate, I suppose. To give people a chance to present their reasons for going openly armed or not. Of one thing you can be sure...Saying or implying that a person's personal decision to do it or not is somehow wrong or stupid isn't the way to influence his/her decision.

I don't. That's my choice. You do. That's yours. Is there a certain risk in doing so? Of course there is...just like going to an ATM in a seedy section of town at midight.

There are some people who are not at all intimidated by the gun on your belt. I know that if I saw an openly carried pistol, and I decided that I wanted to take it from you...there isn't a lot you could do to stop me...and I'm an old man who's seen better days.

BTW, in Wisconsin, concealed carry is completely illegal. So, I guess, unless concealed carry passes, going unarmed is a better choice in Wisconsin?

Straw man argument. The decision to stay legal and take your chances...or to go armed at the risk of being caught...is a matter of personal choice based on the risks involved. I know that the practice of carrying a concealed handgun wasn't born with shall-issue CCW permits.

 

[General Geoff]

I know that if I saw an openly carried pistol, and I decided that I wanted to take it from you...there isn't a lot you could do to stop me...and I'm an old man who's seen better days.

This seems awfully arrogant. Haven't seen a man yet who is immune to physical force. All comes down to situational awareness and who gets the drop on who.


Are you Bruce Lee?

 

[1911Tuner]

This seems awfully arrogant.

Not arrogant at all. I just understand the game. So do the bad guys. Part of prison 101 is teaching the newbs how to disarm a cop.

Haven't seen a man yet who is immune to physical force. All comes down to situational awareness and who gets the drop on who.

Precisely my point. Unless you go around warning everybody in a public place to stay 10 feet from you...you can be taken down in the blink of an eye. Even if you do, you don't have eyes in the back of your head. People who are determined to do something like that only rarely give warning of their intentions. At least, the ones who know what they're doing.

Pass me on the street. I smile and nod a polite greeting...and reach for the sap in my back pocket as we pass. Just as I'm no longer in your periphreal...Bang! You're on your knees watching all the pretty stars, and your gun is mine. See...I'm too old and too tired to do the hand-to-hand thing any more...and a sap is easy to carry and wicked effective at putting your lights out.

But...you said it yourself. No man is immune to physical force.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Stun guns ought to be effective for disarming a person. =More embarrassing if it happens to a cop.

 

[LaTiratrice]

Since some bad guys no doubt try to disarm police that carry openly, it would seem to me that this might happen at some point to citizens who do this. Just saying.

 

[smince]

The girl in the video describes him by saying 'the whole neighborhood called him "the man with the gun" '. To me he lost all his tactical advantage right there.

My thoughts, from another thread on o.c.:

I don't need to be seen with a gun to be non-selected by a BG. Attitude and how you carry yourself goes a longer way toward not having to use a gun than OC.

In my AO, in my experience, concealed carry is a better tactic than OC. For myself.

YMMV.

Really, I don't see the need to have a gun hanging off my belt for the whole world to see anymore. There is a reason I don't and it has nothing to do with being hassled by the police or losing a right. I don't want ANYONE to know I'm armed. Not the neighborhood gossip, not the thugs, not the everyday folks going about their business.

If I am going outside of the house at night, I do open carry but that's about it. If I am going anywhere else I would rather have my gun concealed.

I would only OC if that were the only legal way to carry.

I am sure that some of the criminal element will just pick another target, but some is not all. The visible gun will not make you the bane of criminals and solve all your problems. And most people are not as tuned in as they think they are.

Weapon retention is more of an issue with open carry. If you have had at least academy-level retention classes or a comparable private class, all the better. How many OC'ers have? Now how many do you see OCing in a $5 holster from the bargain gun show table?

There are a multitude of reasons for and against open carry. If that's your thing go for it. I prefer not to.

 

[rogertc1]

All right dude!!!

 

[NavyLCDR]

I dunno. Conversation and civil discussion and debate, I suppose. To give people a chance to present their reasons for going openly armed or not.

So, in other words, start the same old tired argument of open carry v. concealed carry with the same arguments presented for and against both sides that have been posted and read many, many times before and ends in 40-50 pages of the same stuff going back and forth that has been going back and forth for years.

Maybe we should just leave it at: it's a dangerous world out there, pay attention to your surroundings and don't let the bad guy get the drop on you. It doesn't matter if you concealed carry or open carry. Carry your gun however you want to, and work together to make the laws allow for everyone to carry their guns however they want to. None of us in this community should be against any method of carry, we all should be supportive of any person that lawfully carries a gun.

 

[General Geoff]

Pass me on the street. I smile and nod a polite greeting...and reach for the sap in my back pocket as we pass. Just as I'm no longer in your periphreal...Bang! You're on your knees watching all the pretty stars, and your gun is mine.

Being the young man that I am, I still remember lessons from high school, being the nerdy kid who was always picked on. Those instincts have not gone away yet, and as such I am always wary of anyone who might be right behind me for whatever reason, especially someone who just passed very close by. I dare say it would not be so easy to sap me on the street. Though I am aware that most people are fighteningly easy to sneak up on, as I've done so unintentionally many times in the past.

See...I'm too old and too tired to do the hand-to-hand thing any more...and a sap is easy to carry and wicked effective at putting your lights out.

Just as with anything else, attempting to sneak up on someone and assaulting them is a throw of the dice. Most people are blissfully unaware of their immediate surroundings, which I dare say is far more important of a factor than whether they're carrying a gun, open or concealed.

But...you said it yourself. No man is immune to physical force.

And no man is immune to surprise...

 

[Sauer Grapes]

He should have used a retention holster and been more aware of his surroundings.



Sent from my Android smart phone using Tapatalk.

^^^THIS!^^^

 

[1911Tuner]

Just as with anything else, attempting to sneak up on someone and assaulting them is a throw of the dice. Most people are blissfully unaware of their immediate surroundings,

Not really, on either count. How often have you been in close proximity of a stranger, and been put at ease by his friendly smile and seemingly passive demeanor? It only takes one, and sometimes people "sneak" up on you in plain sight...and thy usually smile just before they drop the hammer. The next time you're engaged in idle conversation with a guy in checkout line, ask yourself how easily you could take him if you wanted to. How quickly could you smack him with a sap or zap him with a stun gun...and whether he could stop you.

You only see the idiot wannbe amateurs coming. With the others, the first clue that you're under attack is when your head explodes in a light show, or when your blood is on their blade. By then, it's too late. You've just lost that fight. Sometimes they even come in pairs...and the tag team partner is usually always behind you.

So, in other words, start the same old tired argument

I guess. That's what makes America great. The right to civil discourse...presenting reasoning for or against...etc. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not arguing for or against anything. Mostly, I play Devil's Advocate" and let everyone decide for themselves what their best course of action is...but before anyone can really make an informed decision...all the angles should be studied carfully and the decision based on reality instead of a belief.

As for the chant:

"A right not exercised is a right lost."

Is, frankly...sheepdip. Keeping my mouth shut during a public debate is in no way losing my right to speak. I just choose not to until such time that I simply have to say something or come unwrapped.

 

[Heartless_Conservative]

So let me get this straight 1911Tuner, you're saying that unless someone is badass enough to defeat a professionally executed armed ambush, they should leave their self-defense weapons at home? There are multiple incidents of people prevailing even after the criminal "gets the drop on them," unless the badguy starts off by shooting you in the back of the head from ambush, there is QUITE a lot someone could do to "stop you."

 

[1911Tuner]

Guys...So far, I haven't seen anyone post:

"I don't open carry because some guy might take my gun and you shouldn't do it either!"

I've seen several state that they do or don't, and offer their reasons for it. That's fine. A matter of choice is always valid for an individual's actions...assuming that those actions are legal and don't have a negative impact on anyone else.

I don't open carry. I have three personal reasons for that, and although I don't feel compelled to justify anything to anybody...I'll list them.

The very small chance that I'll be targeted because of the gun. Small chance doesn't mean no chance. I don't think in terms of absolute. If the possibility exists, I want to minimize the possibility as far as possible.


I don't like to draw attention to myself in public. I'm the guy who can disappear in a crowd of three...and I like it that way.

I simply don't see any advantage in openly carrying a sidearm and no real reason to, except possibly to make a statement or because it's the only legal way to carry in a given jurisdiction. I don't have any statements to make. I have attended open carry rallies and signed petitions in a show of support for your right to do so...but I don't do it myself. A personal choice.

What I have noticed a lot is that many of the people who scream about Constitutional rights will immediately challenge someone who makes a choice other than what they feel is best...regardless of their reasons for it, and regardless of their circumstances. For myself, I don't give a rotund rodent's rump if you (generically speaking) carry one on each hip and an AR15 slung over your shoulder for a trip to the Piggly Wiggly to pick up bread and milk. Me? I'll just pull my shirt over the gun and go quietly about my business.

 

[General Geoff]

Not really, on either count. How often have you been in close proximity of a stranger, and been put at ease by his friendly smile and seemingly passive demeanor?

This might seem overly paranoid, but it makes me suspicious when a total stranger smiles at me with nobody else around, and I judge any small talk in such a scenario very critically. This might be a difference in culture between the South and the Northeast, I don't know.

It only takes one, and sometimes people "sneak" up on you in plain sight...and thy usually smile just before they drop the hammer. The next time you're engaged in idle conversation with a guy in checkout line, ask yourself how easily you could take him if you wanted to. How quickly could you smack him with a sap or zap him with a stun gun...and whether he could stop you.

I don't think I've ever engaged in idle conversation with a total stranger in a checkout line. And I worked at a grocery store for five years.

You only see the idiot wannbe amateurs coming. With the others, the first clue that you're under attack is when your head explodes in a light show, or when your blood is on their blade. By then, it's too late. You've just lost that fight. Sometimes they even come in pairs...and the tag team partner is usually always behind you.

With two people, it's twice as easy to detect something's amiss before it happens. You presume that said person is not on his guard. I don't know about you, but when I'm alone save for one or two people in a public setting, I don't let my guard down even when they're not in my field of vision. All it takes is hearing the person pulling something from their pocket or the disturbance of air immediately behind you to quickly side step and turn around.

In the end, a professional with your type of tactics would realize that their mark is aware of them, and move on to an easier target. Body language works both ways, and even if you could get the drop on me, you'd more than likely wait for a less suspecting target.


edit; Might as well say "well you can't know when a sniper is going to drop you from a rooftop," in terms of out-there arguments. Anyone who is sufficiently trained and motivated to sneak up on aware targets like that, isn't going to target someone over a mere handgun.