Open Carry of Rifles at an Airport

[Nom de Forum]

According to the short story on the local ABC affiliate a man took his rifle to Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport and was observed and videoed seated with the rifle on his lap. It was reported someone felt threatened and complained to the police. The man was arrested. His stated purpose for being at the airport was "to get a cup of coffee". This was the second time the man was seen at Sky Harbor with a rifle. The first time he kept it slung on his shoulder and was not arrested. Does anyone think this type of Open Carry is beneficial to promoting the RKBA? I don't think so and I believe similar Open Carry displays will only make protecting 2A Rights more difficult.


MOD NOTE: Let's try to stay focused on this case and not drift widely into the general OC issue or drag extreme examples of OC fails into this particular example or extreme examples of other "rights" issues into this particular case.
Here's a news link on the story http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...h-rifle-arrested-at-sky-harbor-abrk/13297867/

 

[Impureclient]

"Stupid is as stupid does" - F. Gump

 

[tuna]

Or, it will just become commonplace and no one will care. A lot of things that are commonplace now were looked down on at first: interracial dating, gay pride displays, etc. Now those things only get news when someone makes a stink, and comes off looking stupid.
What did he do that was illegal? False imprisonment charges for the cops?

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Going to the airport to get a cup of coffee is about the stupidest statement I have ever heard. Carrying a rifle while doing something stupid does not support our Second Amendment rights. Post #2 nailed it correctly.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Or, it will just become commonplace and no one will care. A lot of things that are commonplace now were looked down on at first: interracial dating, gay pride displays, etc. Now those things only get news when someone makes a stink, and comes off looking stupid.
What did he do that was illegal? False imprisonment charges for the cops?

If complaints came in from the citizens then disturbing the peace is a valid charge.

Now back 60 years there were no nutjobs shooting up collages, airports, schools, playgrounds, etc... and thus an exposed rifle or shotgun was not much of a deal (but most people did carry them encased anyhow.)

But today ain't 60 or 100 years ago folks. And nuts do shoot up places now and then.

And that is why the people got nervous (and I don't blame them.)

Deaf

 

[DT Guy]

If flagging people becomes 'the new normal' I think we're all in trouble, to be honest.

If you can't carry a weapon without covering somebody with the muzzle, you're doing it wrong.


Larry

 

[Nom de Forum]

Or, it will just become commonplace and no one will care. A lot of things that are commonplace now were looked down on at first: interracial dating, gay pride displays, etc. Now those things only get news when someone makes a stink, and comes off looking stupid.
What did he do that was illegal? False imprisonment charges for the cops?

Few people believe interracial dating and gay pride displays have the potential to be used to cause their violent death.

What did he do that was illegal? Remember this was the second time he went to the airport with his rifle and he wasn't arrested the first time. What was the difference the second time? You cannot lay a loaded rifle on your lap while seated at a busy airport without eventually pointing a loaded rifle at a human being.

 

[rcmodel]

It's probably not against the law to carry a 5 gal can of lawn mower gas and a book of matches into an airport terminal to get a cold drink before mowing either.

But no Rational person would do it!

He was extremely stupid & insensitive to less 'enlightened' non-gun. Folks.
No matter what the perceived point he was trying to make was.

rc

 

[lxd55]

"Stupid is as stupid does" - F. Gump

Forrest was a movie character. but I know of nothing of Hollywood using all types of firearms to promote their movies and then turning to hoplophobia to keep you from
having yours. just saying. legal is legal, until the PC police show up.

 

[benEzra]

Or, it will just become commonplace and no one will care. A lot of things that are commonplace now were looked down on at first: interracial dating, gay pride displays, etc. Now those things only get news when someone makes a stink, and comes off looking stupid.
What did he do that was illegal? False imprisonment charges for the cops?

Relationships between people of different skin tone or ethnicity, and between people of the same sex, were normalized by people in those relationships acting normal. Gay couples going to churches and making out in the front pew happened occasionally, but it set the movement back whenever it happened, and the rational majority in that movement managed to convince the idiots to more-or-less sit down, shut up, and quit screwing things up for the majority.

Carrying a cased rifle to the airport to travel is normal. CCWing while dropping off a friend at the airport is normal. Discreetly and professionally OC'ing a pistol while dropping a friend off at the airport might be considered normal in areas where pistol OC while going about your normal business is common. Carrying an uncased rifle or shotgun---regardless of type---into an airport so that other people can see you get a cup of coffee carrying a rifle, or so that you can take selfies of yourself doing same, is NOT NORMAL. It is downright weird, and does nothing whatsoever to normalize OC in any way.

The rifle-OC attention hounds making the national news lately can stop "helping" any time now...

 

[thefish]

and was observed and videoed seated with the rifle on his lap. It was the reported someone felt threatened and complained to the police.

I'd feel threatened too if some idiot swept me at the airport, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[X-Rap]

I think it is the inevitable poor muzzle discipline that comes from these crusaders in coffee shops and their theatrical selfies and social media that concerns me.
Not a much different view than what i heard and saw was happening to citizens during the mass police action following the Boston Bombing except these attention seekers are at least probably using unloaded guns.
I hope the day comes when the public is no longer phobic about the presence of armed citizens.

 

[RustyShackelford]

OC at airports....

I've seen a few states & cities changed the laws or statues re; carry of weapons at airports. Some now allow guns on the property but not in areas where airline employees/passengers have been screened by TSA.
I just would not risk it even if I had a firearm. I checked my pistol(a M&P Compact .45acp) with the airline. It wasn't hard. The desk agent did ask me to open the case & he checked it to verify the serial #(which contradicted a few forum posts before my trip).
FWIW, the 2013 LA/LAX spree shooter event showed that airport/airline security still isn't as safe or secure as some would like.

Rusty

 

[Blue Brick]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...h-rifle-arrested-at-sky-harbor-abrk/13297867/

 

[Ignition Override]

Why not start this trend in numerous very small, rural towns, in a planned, scheduled and coordinated campaign?

Then gradually-in the same area-do so in carefully selected larger towns, before trying it in specific suburbs of larger cities (Not in CA, NJ, NY or MA), while gradually conditioning people? Repetition can lead to a "known quantity".

Is achievement of long-term goals leading to social change (regarding the Second Amendment) the objective, or only shock value in the short-term, simply to be a legalistic statement and educate some of LEOs who must respond to a frightened caller?
Don't get me wrong. I want long-term promotion of the Second Amendment and much more acceptance of guns among our delicate urban/suburban culture.

 

[armoredman]

In Arizona if a person calls the police because someone is carrying a gun, more often than not the problem is the observer. We had a gentleman carry his AR-15 to a "free speech zone" when Obaaa visited Phoenix. He was not arrested or impeded in any way because he was not breaking the law. He did it as a political statement, and the rifle was unloaded, with a loaded magazine in his back pocket. As a side note, some media tried to make a racial thing with it, but they to crop the picture very closely as the gentleman also happened to be black.
I have seen people open carry rifles in this state - not many, to be sure, but occasionally. Heck, I've done it myself back in the day, but for valid reasons and short times.
Now, having said all that - this guy is an idiot. Going to the airport to get an inconvenient and overpriced cup of coffee is indicative of a stunt. In Texas with the same guys like pictured above, I might understand...but this is Arizona, a Constitutional Carry state - we don't NEED stunts, we already HAVE the recognized rights!

 

[BSA1]

If I am in my local walmart and I turn the corner to see a guy with an AR or AK in the ready position with his hand around the grip and finger by the trigger guard and his other hand on the handguard I am liable to pull my pistol out and draw down on him.

Just be prepared to spend your time and money standing in front of a Judge explaining why you threatened somebody doing a legal activity with your gun. In my State it is called Aggravated Assault and carries a prison sentence.

I really don't like these rifle OC people, all they want is attention and they think they look cool carrying an AR around with their friends... Sometimes I do OC my pistol and most people don't even notice it.

So it is ok to open carry only in the manner which you approve of.

 

[preachnhunt]

This topic keeps coming up in various forms, and every time I find myself thinking that just because something is legal does not make it prudent.
If one of our goals is to persuade people that we are not crazies,but are,rather, normal everyday folks who take self defense seriously ,I fail to understand how we can achieve it by scaring people.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Just be prepared to spend your time and money standing in front of a Judge explaining why you threatened somebody doing a legal activity with your gun. In my State it is called Aggravated Assault and carries a prison sentence.

In most states it wouldn't make it to a judge unless the person is an idiot. In most states it won't even make it to an arrest. Police will show up. They will interview both parties. The guy with the AK will say he was minding his own business and a guy pulled a gun on him. The other guy will say he was minding his own business shopping and he looked up and there's a guy with an AK with his hand on the grip and his finger near the trigger.

An arguably reasonable assumption that things were about to get pear shaped.

Most officers I know would tell the AK guy to go home and stop being an idiot and the pistol guy to go home and calm down. No arrests. Well, rookies might make an arrest. Their training officer will Gibbs slap them though. Never met a DA that would take that case though. Too much of a chance of a sympathetic jury agreeing that guys with AKs parading around in stores with their fingers near the trigger are likely to cause some serious concerns amongst the not wanting to get killed general public. DAs don't like losing cases. That's why the don't take the funky smelling ones.

Of course, that's not me giving legal advice. That's just me musing on my observations of how it works in practice.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Perception.....

I'd say a big part of the US open carry movement or issue is perception.

Different people see things in different ways. Some draw conclusions or perceive things then assume they are right or "know the law" .
If you live in a "open carry" area you should learn what you can & can't carry or where/where not you can carry, then if your non-gun owner friends/co-workers/relatives/etc say; "I saw a guy carrying a ___ , is that legal?" you can explain the 2A/gun law issue to them.

Some of these people carrying guns or rifles/shotguns around openly are doing it to make a point.
Some are doing it to chide the local LE or get fame/notice by making a video that gets a lot of views.
These are not responsible prudent gun owners. These are hobbyists & posers who will drift away at some point because no one will give them attention or the people they encounter will ignore them.

 

[ATLDave]

The issue isn't that he had the rifle, the issue is that he muzzled people.

"He "then proceeded to remove the (Stag Arms) AR-15 from his right shoulder thus causing the muzzle to face two victims sitting to the right..." the booking sheet reads. "Both victims, a mother and her 17-year-old daughter, both stated they felt in fear of their safety when the rifle was pointed in their direction."" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/va...n_scientist_arrested_at_airport_with_ar15.php

As others have repeatedly pointed out in long-gun-OC threads, it is IMPOSSIBLE to carry a long arm in a crowded area and not sweep people. Even if you're very smart. Nobody should have to tolerate loaded guns in the hand being pointed at them. Don't OC long arms.

 

[Sol]

Poor setting really.

The government and the media are still in a tizzy over that 9/11 stuff.
Going into an airport, open carrying an AR opens up your portrait to be painted with the terrorist brush.

More poor settings:
Political rallies and conventions.
Protests, counter protests that have nothing to do with the 2A.
Anything with a close proximity to kids.
Near large gatherings (parades, stadiums, sports events)
Anything near "VIP", and I HATE to say this but "celebrities", sports players, politicians, wealthy etc. Public figures.

I don't care if somebody OCs, but somebody else will.

 

[ATLDave]

Poor setting really.

I don't disagree, but there is no setting where I'm going to be happy about someone pointing the barrel of a loaded, uncased rifle in my direction. This would get you kicked out of a hot gun range, for crying out loud.

 

[Sol]

^Were it an LEO or uniformed security that swept them, would those people still feel threatened?

I would be quite angry if I was muzzled too.

I think it's a perception issue.

 

[kwguy]

Yeah, I wouldnt' feel too happy about being swept by some stranger, either. LEO or not.