open carry: worth it?

[Palehorseman]

We have open carry here in AZ, I always do so when we leave the house on ATV's going out into the desert. It is also legal to have a firearm in a vehicle, so long as it is not concealed and a LEO can readily see it from outside the vehicle.

I see people quite often open carry in even Wal-Mart, but by my own volition, I do not chose to do so.

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

More people are killed each year from lightning than people have their Openly Carried handgun taken from them. When the legal choice is to go unarmed or to OC, I OC.

 

[NavyLCDR]

More people are killed each year from lightning than people have their Openly Carried handgun taken from them.

And yet some people still insist upon wearing tin foil hats!

 

[Deanimator]

Especially during the period of transition, might a citizen in distress assume you are a cop from the gun on your hip and seek your aid? Say an armed robbery? Are you prepared to wade in? Will you have a choice?

Police have NO legal duty to protect individuals.
Police have NO legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.

If it suits them, they can run away at the first sign of danger, with no civil or criminal consequences whatever. They MIGHT get fired.

THEY have a choice. Why would I have LESS of a choice?

 

[Deanimator]

Anybody who doesn't think that the Lakewood, CO cops who were murdered weren't murdered BECAUSE they were cops, or who believes that they were murdered MERELY because they were carrying guns is living in a fantasy world.

Does ANYBODY think that if they'd been IN UNIFORM but carrying concealed, that they WOULDN'T have been shot?

The killer was somebody who hated cops, not [another] deranged, gun hating member of the Million Mom March.

 

[rswartsell]

It amazes me that so many self conferred "learned heads" can't understand why their particular post wasn't the last word on the topic. After all my logic is immaculate and the "opponent" didn't respond to my well reasoned conclusion. After all this isn't a forum for many disparate ideas wherein one might consider diverse things and be better for it, this is my field of honor where I will be victorious and bring all the kindred under my learned wings. What? All I can achieve with the electronic rhetoric is after all theoretical? The only reality that actually takes a chunk out of your hide is the however improbable that is happening to me right now? Wait, wait, didn't my cyber buddies and I put this away in the last thread? This isn't FAIR.

My cyber hero told me if I "had it in me" to OC I would be immune to what those cyber pussies thought and I could really be John Wayne. Oh God, I'm really bleeding, where are all my website allies now?

They are talking about how your experience is anecdotal and how it does not carry the mass to move "learned opinion".

 

[rswartsell]

This morning I took my Kimber Custom II Target to the range and shot 100 rounds. My best 5 shot group amounted to a ragged hole at an honest 50 ft. I am as vulnerable to chance now as I was the day I was born. Carrying that thing in plain sight changes things, and even if I can hit a gnat's eyelash at 100 yards I am not immune to anything.

Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make proud.

 

[Kindrox]

It amazes me that so many self conferred "learned heads" can't understand why their particular post wasn't the last word on the topic.

It's because someone can always pop up with "But something bad could happen" and no final post is going to clear someone's fear. The last couple pages of this thread have been people for OCing asking the other side to boil the reasons against OCing down to something tangible.

The people againt OCing have basically admited they can't, and I think have admited their opposition is based on the emotional response to things that might happen but don't appear to happen very often.

As a bystander (never oc'ed due to the local law) who thinks he'd like to OC and is very interested in knowing exactly what an OCing person might need to think about in advance, a lot of the points brought up seem possible, but the OCing community is saying those situations are extreemly rare, and my own sense of reality tends to agree.

I think the most realistic situation an OC'er faces is being harassed. However that is a situation someone carring concealed needs to think about too, so thinking a little further does not seem a large mental stretch to me.

Why can't an anti just list some some possible situations that might arise if one is OCing, and be fine with other people choosing to or not to OC?

Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make proud.

I don't feel big and bad with a gun under my jacket, I don't think having it outside my jacket is going to change much. However if your mental image of someone OCing is this, I think it explains a lot of your opposition.

 

[bababooey32]

rswartsell-

I'm sorry that you find thoughtful analysis of information tiresome and unworthy of your time.

After all this isn't a forum for many disparate ideas wherein one might consider diverse things and be better for it...

This IS a forum of many ideas. But taking in a wide range of ideas doesn't mean I have to accept them all at face value and not expect opinions to come with backup facts. After all an opinion based on nothing but more opinion is pretty worthless to all involved. If speculation about what "might" or "could" or "should" happen is enough to shape your behavior - I'll leave you to it. If, like me and most here on THR, you prefer a bit more substance to your arguments, then stick around and participate. Ridiculing those of us that seek rigor in our inputs before making decisions is not "The High Road".

All I can achieve with the electronic rhetoric is after all theoretical?

Yes ... this after all, only the Internet. We are exchanging ideas via text, not engaging in live FoF simulations to test every scenario. That is precisely why it is imperative to bring to the discussion reasoned arguments and evidence to make your points more salient. Otherwise you're just a blowhard with a keyboard.

 

[Water-Man]

Dodson...You should reconsider your signature line!

 

[-eaux-]

wow. still at it, are we?
OP here, remember me?
i truly appreciate you who have considered the question and responded accordingly.
for the rest of you who have turned this (relatively) simple open-ended question into an 8+ page tyrade, you're welcome. glad i could accidentally open a worm can.

 

[thomis]

i know my feelings, i ask for yours.
why should i register with the state to ccw when i live in an open carry state?
on the other hand, why should i put up with all the garbage that comes with carrying open when carrying open is my right? should i register with the state to save myself the explaining? do i even owe anyone an explanation at all?
just how militant does it make me to exercize a right? there seems a serious descrepancy between what my rights are and reality.
do i open carry (possibly viewed as civil disobedience) to find out how my local LE feels about it?

-eaux-

I didn't read all 8 pages of responses (for lack of free time) but I'd like to respond to your original post, from my point of view. I've struggled with the issue extensively and finally let it go recently (and without therapy even!).

I live in an open carry state as well, yet I chose to register and apply for my CCW. My reasoning was in part due to the gang activity in my area, but mostly because of the local law enforcement. I'm not a LE basher but I have not been impressed with the level of professionalism our LE exhibits. From my experience OC'ing just begs for attention. I know, it sucks. It is our right but unfortunately our society exists behind such a blanket of wool so that all common sense is confused with political correctness, fear, crime and hatred.
OC'ing has done nothing but brought me pain and suffereing, even from the local LE that don't respect private citizens that OC. I was once asked by a LE officier in a fast food restaurant to stop OC'ing because it made his job harder.

As far as the local gang activity, if you open carry in an area heavily patrolled by gang grunts, you are seen as encroaching on their territory, you're immediately marked and chances of being followed or attacked until your out of the territory is pretty strong.

With a wife and a baby now, I have chosen to swallow my pride and carry concealed where ever I legally can.

I think the most difficult question to answer that you asked is "do I even owe anyone an explanation at all?" Thats a hard one to answer.

 

[NavyLCDR]

As far as the local gang activity, if you open carry in an area heavily patrolled by gang grunts, you are seen as encroaching on their territory, you're immediately marked and chances of being followed or attacked until your out of the territory is pretty strong.

That reason I absolutely agree with thomis. There are towns in Washington that I would not open carry in for exactly that same reason.

The "so I won't be hassled by LEO" argument, just for me, and me personally, goes against my particular oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC. But again, that's just me - to me I see it as my duty to show those LEO out there who would seek to abuse our rights that it is just not acceptable to do so and I will not comply with their "wishes" or their "opinions". I will, just for me, comply with the actual law.

While I appreciate the others that feel the same as I do, and I value their camaraderie, I can certainly understand others who do not wish to take the chance against bad LEOs out there. Fortunately, where I live the bad LEOs are very few and far between and a stern warning letter to the Chief of Police in my small town over an incident seems to have fixed things here.

 

[w_houle]

Wow... That was a lot to shovel through
I would like to, but:
What do I do with it when I enter my car? Can I wear it or does it go in to the trunk? Does it stay loaded or does the ammunition need to be separate? How do I deal with "No gun" zones (Schools, Post Office, gun buster signs, et c.)? What to do if asked to leave a building? What do I do if Law Enforcement doesn't know about open carry?

 

[TheProf]

I personally opt to CCW. However, I do support the idea of open carry laws along with CCW....so just in case my cover garment accidentally reveals my concealed weapon... I would have no problem.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Hey, hey! It's your bicentennial post, TheProf!