iliketoshootguns
member
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- Jul 19, 2006
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he's a businessman
opinions about Massad Ayoob
- Thread starter Snowjob
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FPrice
Member
Luckily "as far as you know" is not the defining summary of Mr. Ayoob's reputation. He has done far more than you have given him credit for in a lot more venues than you seem to realize.
1. I have never been there but from reading more than a few accounts from many different sources, the aftermath of a perfectly legitimate shooting can in fact be a horror story. Ayoob is one of the few people who try to prepare you for this. It's a matter of winning the battle but possibly losing the war.
2. No lawsuit is ridiculous if you are the one having to spend your money defending yourself. Especially if the result of losing can be hard time in a hard place.
3. He is an expert witness. I would imagine it is difficult to get that status without having many more credentials than you seem to know.
Look, I am not going to tell you that you can't criticize Ayoob. But I am going to suggest that you know what you are talking about, have some facts to back you up, and be prepared to show why you know more than he knows.
Otherwise you deserve any lack of credibility you receive.
Zombie thread alert!~ 
Let me point out that since the time this thread began, Massad Ayoob has become a member in good standing here on THR. (Hi Mas!)
As a result, he enjoys the same protections against personal attacks and insults as any other THR member.
You can disagree with what he says -- vehemently, if need be -- but you may not attack him personally, nor insult him, nor smear his reputation.
Attacking other members is the short route to being shown the door.
pax
Let me point out that since the time this thread began, Massad Ayoob has become a member in good standing here on THR. (Hi Mas!)
As a result, he enjoys the same protections against personal attacks and insults as any other THR member.
You can disagree with what he says -- vehemently, if need be -- but you may not attack him personally, nor insult him, nor smear his reputation.
Attacking other members is the short route to being shown the door.
pax
FPrice
Member
A lot of people who have been in the business recognize his expertise. If this constitutes fandom, so be it.
I gave you some hints on how to structure any criticism you may have about the man. Once again I urge you to try and outline/summarize your dislike for Mr. Ayoob along those lines and see what you can come up with.
Best wishes.
frayluisfan
Member
Homemade self defense ammo
Actually, Ayoob has answered the doubts about this in a fairly recent column. I can't find it right now, wish I could. But he discussed the case of a guy whose wife was mentally unstable and killed herself with the ultra-light .38 ammo he (the husband, not Ayoob ) had loaded for her. Since they had been fighting that night (the lady and the husband, not the lady and Ayoob ), and the ultra light load left no powder burns on her noggin, the authorities were convinced the husband had killed her and was trying to fake a suicide. The trial cleared it up, but it was very messy.
Hope this helps.
frayluisfan
Actually, Ayoob has answered the doubts about this in a fairly recent column. I can't find it right now, wish I could. But he discussed the case of a guy whose wife was mentally unstable and killed herself with the ultra-light .38 ammo he (the husband, not Ayoob
) had loaded for her. Since they had been fighting that night (the lady and the husband, not the lady and Ayoob ), and the ultra light load left no powder burns on her noggin, the authorities were convinced the husband had killed her and was trying to fake a suicide. The trial cleared it up, but it was very messy. Hope this helps.
frayluisfan
I think ayoob has helped the ccw movement and perhaps made some people realize the gravity that might come with using their firearm in self defense. I do not believe I would call him a "ballistics expert" nor do I think the information he presents is always accurate even if that is nonintentional. I do not feel his work would hold up to peer reviewed journal type scrutiny.
If you're going to look for information on topics he would be writing on, it has the potential to be very important to you at some time. As with most things of that nature, I would say to seek multiple sources and then determine what you feel is the truth.
If you're going to look for information on topics he would be writing on, it has the potential to be very important to you at some time. As with most things of that nature, I would say to seek multiple sources and then determine what you feel is the truth.
I bought In the Gravest Extreme years ago. I read it every now and then.
You need to have the proper perspective about self defense shootings. Shoot if you have to, but if you can avoid it, do so.
I will not worry about hand loaded ammo being a problem in court. I think hand loaded ammo is slightly less reliable than factory (not by much) and that by itself is reason enough to use factory ammo for self-defense purposes.
I figure if I have to shoot someone, or whack them with a baseball bat, or whatever lethal force I HAVE to use to survive, I hope I can just do it cause it is better to be alive in court than cold on a slab. But if I can avoid it, I will, and I make no apologies for that to those that think it unmanly or that it encourages the bad guys.
His class was scheduled to be taught near here a few years back and I was thinking about taking it, but for some reason it got canceled.
I am completely unaccustomed to ghetto talk. I might well benefit from the application of such aggression just to get used to the idea that the words are harmless. In an encounter where your life is on the line, if some rough language causes you to hesitate, you could end up on the ground slowly bleeding out. Better to get over the shock of the language that might be used in his class.
YMMV.
You need to have the proper perspective about self defense shootings. Shoot if you have to, but if you can avoid it, do so.
I will not worry about hand loaded ammo being a problem in court. I think hand loaded ammo is slightly less reliable than factory (not by much) and that by itself is reason enough to use factory ammo for self-defense purposes.
I figure if I have to shoot someone, or whack them with a baseball bat, or whatever lethal force I HAVE to use to survive, I hope I can just do it cause it is better to be alive in court than cold on a slab. But if I can avoid it, I will, and I make no apologies for that to those that think it unmanly or that it encourages the bad guys.
His class was scheduled to be taught near here a few years back and I was thinking about taking it, but for some reason it got canceled.
I am completely unaccustomed to ghetto talk. I might well benefit from the application of such aggression just to get used to the idea that the words are harmless. In an encounter where your life is on the line, if some rough language causes you to hesitate, you could end up on the ground slowly bleeding out. Better to get over the shock of the language that might be used in his class.
YMMV.
Though I have not taken any of his courses, I had the occasion to hear him speak several years ago and join him and a small group of pro-RKBA activists for dinner afterwards.
His opinions seem sound, and he is a very engaging speaker. I enjoyed hearing him speak that night and the discussions afterwards. I wouldn't hesitate to take one of the LFI courses if I had the chance.
His opinions seem sound, and he is a very engaging speaker. I enjoyed hearing him speak that night and the discussions afterwards. I wouldn't hesitate to take one of the LFI courses if I had the chance.
Ayoob is one of the VERY few gun writers that is worth reading anymore. Most of the others either are not interesting, not good writers (often both) or are not very well informed. The main problem I have with most gunwriters is you simply can't trust what they say is the truth or even their real opinion. Money and advertisers whisper in their ears and out comes another pro-Taurus article. If you believed all the press about Taurus guns for example, you would be convinced that they are the equel or the better of guns like S&W and Beretta. Simply not true and I don't trust the gun rag writers that say it is.
Sometimes I find myself reading a gun rag (often on the crapper where they were meant to be read) and I am taken aback by a decent article. I have done this a few times and when I look to see who the writer is, it is always Ayoob. He is the one brite spot in "Guns Magazine". Often it is the only artical that I compleatly read in that particular mag.
What Ayoob has above all the rest of the writers is that he is actually a good writer and he doesn't seem to be a guy that invites trouble. From his books and articals, I get the idea that he is the underdog and will fight to defend himself if need be. Reading Cooper for example, I get the feeling that he is a bully and wants to kill anyone that doesn't agree with his narrow way of thinking.
Sometimes I find myself reading a gun rag (often on the crapper where they were meant to be read) and I am taken aback by a decent article. I have done this a few times and when I look to see who the writer is, it is always Ayoob. He is the one brite spot in "Guns Magazine". Often it is the only artical that I compleatly read in that particular mag.
What Ayoob has above all the rest of the writers is that he is actually a good writer and he doesn't seem to be a guy that invites trouble. From his books and articals, I get the idea that he is the underdog and will fight to defend himself if need be. Reading Cooper for example, I get the feeling that he is a bully and wants to kill anyone that doesn't agree with his narrow way of thinking.
Dunno Cyanide, I teach guitar, record and play live with my band Fatback. If I had a chance to cut heads with the red-headed Devil himself in a blues guitar showdown, I'd kick that ol' Devil's ass and take home the solid gold gitfiddle.
I teach and I do, hence, others can.
Biker
I teach and I do, hence, others can.
Biker
Preacherman
Member
Cyanide, you obviously have a problem with Mr. Ayoob, and (judging from your last post) with anyone except Col. Cooper.
Fine - you're entitled to your opinions.
However, read this carefully.
YOU WILL NOT IMPUGN, SLANDER OR MAKE SLY IMPLICATIONS ABOUT THE MOTIVATION, VALUE, MORAL FIBER, OR ANY OTHER ATTRIBUTE OF ANY PERSON WHEN POSTING ON THE HIGH ROAD.
If you do, your membership will be over so fast your head won't have time to spin.
This is non-negotiable, and will not be discussed further.
Fine - you're entitled to your opinions.
However, read this carefully.
YOU WILL NOT IMPUGN, SLANDER OR MAKE SLY IMPLICATIONS ABOUT THE MOTIVATION, VALUE, MORAL FIBER, OR ANY OTHER ATTRIBUTE OF ANY PERSON WHEN POSTING ON THE HIGH ROAD.
If you do, your membership will be over so fast your head won't have time to spin.
This is non-negotiable, and will not be discussed further.
aryfrosty
Member
Ayoob
I believe that Mr. Ayoob has been accepted as an "expert witness" in shooting cases. That is harder to do than convince your buddies you speak truth. Having never spoken to Mr. Ayoob I can't tell you what his opinions are about every situation, But he has reinforced my belief that the moment to begin preparing to defend yourself in court over a justified shooting is at the exact moment you decide to carry. That preparation should influence how often you practice, as well as the weapon, ammunition and holster you use. Forewarned is forearmed. Carry long enough and your chances of having to use it increase. Some of these lessons I've learned by reading Ayoob...some from reading others...and some from 25 + years of carrying on the job and 11 years carrying after retiring.
I believe that Mr. Ayoob has been accepted as an "expert witness" in shooting cases. That is harder to do than convince your buddies you speak truth. Having never spoken to Mr. Ayoob I can't tell you what his opinions are about every situation, But he has reinforced my belief that the moment to begin preparing to defend yourself in court over a justified shooting is at the exact moment you decide to carry. That preparation should influence how often you practice, as well as the weapon, ammunition and holster you use. Forewarned is forearmed. Carry long enough and your chances of having to use it increase. Some of these lessons I've learned by reading Ayoob...some from reading others...and some from 25 + years of carrying on the job and 11 years carrying after retiring.
Cooper taught. Awerbuck teaches. Pat Rogers teaches. Larry Vickers teaches. I guess they are all equally deserving of your derision. Then again, probably not. It's clear that you've bought into the anti-Ayoob arguments without experience of your own, or a clear understanding of exactly who or what Ayoob is. That would indicate that you probably are unaware of these gentlemen (except Cooper whom you seem to be the same type of fanboy which you deride in others) or what they do beyond the low praise that they teach.
XavierBreath
Member
Mas Ayoob is a member here, and while also a public figure, the rules are clear. No flaming of other members. To be honest, this thread makes me ashamed. I have never met the man, I have never taken a class under him, or heard him speak. I have read some of his articles/books.
We would not tolerate a thread entitled "Opinions about Cyanide" or "What do you think about Buzz_Knox?", so we cannot allow it to continue with another High Road member.
If Ayoob debate is allowed to take place in the future, it must be done with the consideration of his forum membership. A bad precedent has been set in the first couple of pages in this thread. This was before Ayoob was a member. We cannot allow that to continue or be supported. Thus, I'm closing this thread and allowing it to drift back into oblivion.
We would not tolerate a thread entitled "Opinions about Cyanide" or "What do you think about Buzz_Knox?", so we cannot allow it to continue with another High Road member.
If Ayoob debate is allowed to take place in the future, it must be done with the consideration of his forum membership. A bad precedent has been set in the first couple of pages in this thread. This was before Ayoob was a member. We cannot allow that to continue or be supported. Thus, I'm closing this thread and allowing it to drift back into oblivion.
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