Opinions on a Winchester 1892 large loop carbine in.45 Colt

[Gary W. Strange]

I have been looking for a lever gun in .45 Colt, for a while. I have considered a Cimarron 1873 or 1892. I would have, had to order one and wait a while. They are out of stock everywhere. I have looked a the Rossi. They are not my cup of tea. The just don’t have the feel of quality.
The other day, the gun shop I buy from called me, and said they have just received a Winchester model 1892, large loop carbine, in .45 Colt, and wanted to know, if I was interested and wanted to look at it, before it went on the shelf. I went and looked at it, that evening. It was very well made. Deep black, well polished blue, action was very tight, lever didn’t rattle, wood is kinda on the dull side, but was fitted very tight to the metal, a little proud. It was just a nice looking quality rifle. It came home with me. It shoots well. Seems like it will be a nice lever gun, in .45 Colt, to go with my .45 Colt revolvers. I was not crazy about the large loop lever, to begin with, but after shooting it, I like it. It’s much easier to cycle, hand is not cramped in tight, or have to use 3 fingers. I think it would be nice on some of my other lever guns. What experience do any have with Winchester 1892s, that would be worth passing on? I would like to hear both good and bad, anything to watch out for, any good advice on load, etc.

 

[czhen]

First congrats on the Winchester 92, few weeks ago I was looking for one 92 to pair my stainless-steel Rossi(ta) in 357cal.
The only issue was it large loop which deters me from getting, because Idk if legal in SASS or practical to use in a match.
Next time I'll get reconsider it again.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Gary, are you going to handload for it? BTW, very nice score.

 

[Pat Riot]

Gary, Congratulations.

You may find that it might be cartridge length sensitive. I would load a few rounds to SAAMI lengths or your standard length and see if they cycle and feed okay. .45 Colt Max COL is 1.600". I know you have a Winchester, but I had a Rossi 92 that I had to load all the cartridges to 1.590 - 1.595" so they would feed reliably. I found this out after loading 300 rounds for the rifle. It wasn't a biggie. I just kept them separated and used them in my revolver..


By the way, I believe there is a THR tradition that one must post photos of their cool new acquisitions...

 

[NorthBorder]

I have a Miroku Win 92 and a Rossi 92 (both 45LC). The Rossi has a large loop and a 16" barrel. Honestly, the Rossi cycles much smoother than the Winnie but I wouldn't give up either. I haven't done it yet, but you might watch some videos on how to tie a paracord or leather wrap on the lever.
As for loads I use a 250 or 255 cast in front of a dose of H110/W296. If I want to power down my loads I play with my Win 73 or Uberti 66. I also have a Henry that I scoped so I put the rear sight from the Henry onto my Win 92. I like that buckhorn much better than the one that comes with the others. I put a Ranger Precision rear peep on the Rossi.
Congratulations on your find and have a great time with it.

 

[Weflyfast]

Not much "Bad" to say about a 92 - just a good solid lever gun that shoots pistol ammo well - keep your handloads- in spec lengthwise for good cycling and don't expect to shoot long range precision rifle with it and you will be happy for years to come-

Lots of fun to shoot and with practice and the right loads it can hunt as well-

Congrats-

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I was not crazy about the large loop lever, to begin with, but after shooting it, I like it. It’s much easier to cycle, hand is not cramped in tight, or have to use 3 fingers.....What experience do any have with Winchester 1892s, that would be worth passing on? I would like to hear both good and bad, anything to watch out for, any good advice on load, etc.

Howdy

Well, you asked for my opinion. I will be the fly in the ointment.

The large loop was a gimmick thought up by the producers of The Rifleman TV show, starring Chuck Connors, around 1958. The large loop allowed Connors to spin the rifle in a way never conceived of by its designer, John M Browning. The prop men for the TV show rigged a set screw to the lever so Connors could empty the magazine in about 5 seconds, without ever touching the trigger. In 1969 John Wayne did the same trick in the first version of True Grit.

I have never had any problem working the lever of a Model 1892 with three fingers inserted into the loop. This is the first rifle I used in Cowboy Action, it is a Winchester Model 1892 that left the factory in 1897. Chambered for 44-40, chambering 45 Colt in rifles is a completely modern thing, never done before sometime in the 1980s.






This Model 1892 carbine left the factory in 1918. It too is chambered for 44-40.






This Model 1892 is chambered for 32-20. It is a real sweetheart to shoot. It shipped in 1911.






Regarding your rifle, the Model 1892 action is very strong. Some of the manufacturers chamber it for 44 Magnum. If I had a '92 chambered for 45 Colt I would stick to standard loads published in well known manuals. My standard 45 Colt load using Smokeless powder is a 250 grain Round Nosed, Flat Point bullet over 7.5 grains of Unique. Not a barn burner by any means, just a nice moderate load. Do be sure to use Round Nosed, Flat Point bullets in a rifle with a tubular magazine.


I did win a Rossi replica of the Model '92 in a raffle a number of years ago. It was chambered for 45 Colt. I sold it and used the money as a down payment on my replica Iron Frame Henry.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

A large loop lever is legal for SASS competition but they are rarely used.

 

[Pat Riot]

@Gary W. Strange
Does this look like yours?

Photo from: https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1892/current/model-1892-large-loop-carbine.html

If you aren’t shooting Cowboy Action the loop should be fine. The original lever loops make for faster follow up shots.

Years ago I did a bunch of research on lever guns and out of all pistol caliber lever guns the 1892 design is the strongest and will handle some pretty stout loads. I found out the hard way with a Rossi 92 in .45 that stout loads in a rough chamber equals stuck cases. Polishing the chamber on a 92 is a real pain but I did do a little but decided to skip on loading hotter than SAAMI spec’d ammo because a dream, believe it or not. I had a dream the bolt of my Rossi 92 became as one with my cheekbone on a remote hunt in Oregon. It kind of rattled my cage a little. Actually, I would trust a Winchester 92 any day over a Rossi. They have their fans, but I will never own another. I had Chinese SKS’s with better finished components inside them than did my Rossi.
No offense meant to anyone that likes Rossi’s. This is MY opinion.

 

[Hokkmike]

Large looped levers are easier on the hand with a good quality glove... I know this is obvious, but buying gloves and adding value to the experience is the best ay to look at it.

 

[CraigC]

In fact, the Japanese Winchesters are among the best leverguns ever made. That said, the newer Rossi's have been very impressive as well, at half the cost.

 

[jmars]

Howdy

Well, you asked for my opinion. I will be the fly in the ointment.

The large loop was a gimmick thought up by the producers of The Rifleman TV show, starring Chuck Connors, around 1958. The large loop allowed Connors to spin the rifle in a way never conceived of by its designer, John M Browning. The prop men for the TV show rigged a set screw to the lever so Connors could empty the magazine in about 5 seconds, without ever touching the trigger. In 1969 John Wayne did the same trick in the first version of True Grit.

I have never had any problem working the lever of a Model 1892 with three fingers inserted into the loop. This is the first rifle I used in Cowboy Action, it is a Winchester Model 1892 that left the factory in 1897. Chambered for 44-40, chambering 45 Colt in rifles is a completely modern thing, never done before sometime in the 1980s.

View attachment 1060971




This Model 1892 carbine left the factory in 1918. It too is chambered for 44-40.

View attachment 1060972




This Model 1892 is chambered for 32-20. It is a real sweetheart to shoot. It shipped in 1911.

View attachment 1060973




Regarding your rifle, the Model 1892 action is very strong. Some of the manufacturers chamber it for 44 Magnum. If I had a '92 chambered for 45 Colt I would stick to standard loads published in well known manuals. My standard 45 Colt load using Smokeless powder is a 250 grain Round Nosed, Flat Point bullet over 7.5 grains of Unique. Not a barn burner by any means, just a nice moderate load. Do be sure to use Round Nosed, Flat Point bullets in a rifle with a tubular magazine.


I did win a Rossi replica of the Model '92 in a raffle a number of years ago. It was chambered for 45 Colt. I sold it and used the money as a down payment on my replica Iron Frame Henry.

Sir, In the 1939 movie "Stagecoach", John Wayne used a large loop model 92
"trapper".
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/2/29/Stagecoach-rifle3.jpg/450px-Stagecoach-rifle3.jpg

 

[Gary W. Strange]

Large looped levers are easier on the hand with a good quality glove... I know this is obvious, but buying gloves and adding value to the experience is the best ay to look at it.

@Gary W. Strange
Does this look like yours?
View attachment 1061078
Photo from: https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1892/current/model-1892-large-loop-carbine.html

If you aren’t shooting Cowboy Action the loop should be fine. The original lever loops make for faster follow up shots.

Years ago I did a bunch of research on lever guns and out of all pistol caliber lever guns the 1892 design is the strongest and will handle some pretty stout loads. I found out the hard way with a Rossi 92 in .45 that stout loads in a rough chamber equals stuck cases. Polishing the chamber on a 92 is a real pain but I did do a little but decided to skip on loading hotter than SAAMI spec’d ammo because a dream, believe it or not. I had a dream the bolt of my Rossi 92 became as one with my cheekbone on a remote hunt in Oregon. It kind of rattled my cage a little. Actually, I would trust a Winchester 92 any day over a Rossi. They have their fans, but I will never own another. I had Chinese SKS’s with better finished components inside them than did my Rossi.
No offense meant to anyone that likes Rossi’s. This is MY opinion.

Yes Sir, mine is exactly like this one. I don’t shoot in matches. The more I play with this large loop 1892, the more I like it. It’s not what I expected. In fact, when I bought it, my intention was to replace the lever, with a standard lever. I reload, but my hottest .45 Colt load is around 850-900 fps. This will take care of anything, in my part of the world.

 

[Pat Riot]

The more I play with this large loop 1892, the more I like it.

You are not the first person I have heard say this.

I reload, but my hottest .45 Colt load is around 850-900 fps

Same here.
I loaded up some "hot" rounds to shoot in my Vaquero and my Rossi 92 a few years ago and decided the results weren't worth the effort. Accuracy wasn't there either.

Those Winchester are good looking rifles. I know you're going to enjoy the one you have.

 

[czhen]

The 92's are wonderful rifles my Rossi"ta" in .38-357 needs a mate in .45 Colt. Thinking on it, as I said before lately only Winchester lever action rifles grab my attention and wallet lately.

 

[SwampWolf]

I love the 92. I'm doubtless in the minority here, but I'm no fan of large loops. In my subjective eyes, they look goofy and "pretentious". In my experience, the larger loop is actually slower to operate because there's so much slop between the hand and the lever, compromising leverage (pun intended ). Too, although I wear XL gloves, I've never had a problem with my gloved hand fitting (albeit snuggly) inside the lever of my Model 94 carbine in the winter. Lastly, the bigger the loop, the more likely twigs, branches and such will find their unwelcome way in.

If the sizes of conventional levers are too small, it's curious to me that lever-action rifles like the Savage Model 99s, Winchester Model 88s and Sako Finnwolfs and the like, never came with large loops.

I have absolutely no quarrel with people enamored by the exploits of Chuck Conners and John Wayne nor with people who really find large loops to be advantageous to their own needs, whether aesthetically or real. Each to their own. My opinions are only my opinions.

 

[czhen]

I love the 92. I'm doubtless in the minority here, but I'm no fan of large loops. In my subjective eyes, they look goofy and "pretentious". In my experience, the larger loop is actually slower to operate because there's so much slop between the hand and the lever, compromising leverage (pun intended ). Too, although I wear XL gloves, I've never had a problem with my gloved hand fitting (albeit snuggly) inside the lever of my Model 94 carbine in the winter. If the sizes of conventional levers are too small, it's curious to me that lever-action rifles like the Savage Model 99s, Winchester Model 88s and Sako Finnwolfs and the like, never came with large loops.

I have absolutely no quarrel with people enamored by the exploits of Chuck Conners and John Wayne nor with people who really find large loops to be advantageous to their own needs, whether aesthetically or real. Each to their own. My opinions are only my opinions.

Beside the loop if far to be close from the original shape used by "The Rifleman" (I confess I was a Chuck fan as a kid)

 

[stanley_white]

I have no experience with the Winchester 92 action but I have had enough of the “Marlin Jam” in my life to not trust angle-loading pistol caliber lever guns.

If I were to buy one today, it would be of the 1873 variety, where the shell moves in a straight line.

If I had to buy an angle-loader it would be a Henry, as I could remove the magazine spring without tools to fix the jam if it occurred.

-Stan

 

[Beck]

The old west Made in Japan makes my brain hurt, but there's no denying the Japanese Miroku Winchester model 92s are very well made. The rear sights on the Winchesters that I've seen are about like those on the Rossi 92s... functional, but not ideal. I replaced the one on my Rossi with a semi-buckhorn. I don't care for the super large loop as in The Rifleman TV series, but I've seen Winchesters with a 3/4 loop that seems about right to me.

I've considered replacing the standard loop on my Rossi 92 with a 3/4 loop. There are a couple other loop types/shapes that I like better than the standard. The loop in the pic from Pat in post #9 looks about right. I call that a 3/4 loop. It's not the largest.

As usual in these threads, some folks love to hate the Rossi 92. Likely because they've been made for so many years with varying degrees of quality. I must have been lucky. My Rossi 92 is from the early 1990s and is every bit as true to the original, very well fit, and as solid as the Miroku Winchesters. I've been shooting it for nearly 30 years with hot loads and no issues at all.

I would be happy with a Japanese 92, but I would replace the rear sight and lose the large loop if it's the humongous one.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Straight walled .45 Colt is doable today in a lever action rifle, but I haven't seen an original black powder era lever action rifle in .45 Colt.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Driftwood will jump in and tell me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that .45 Colt was not a lever caliber back in the day.
For the OP, I would gladly take your carbine, not because I like the large loop, but because any Miroku '92 is rare as hens' teeth. Tried to buy one several years ago, as they were on the Winchester web site, but they were some pre-order from SHOT thing. Finally gave up, and got the '73 version, which is a wonderful rifle, but much bigger than the '92.
Went looking again, and a Rossi was the only 92 to be found, anywhere. Local shop got it for me, and it has worked well. Blanked off the manual safety, and drilled/tapped it for a tang sight. The '73 was at least already tapped.
I load cowboy stuff, maybe 850'sec out of 16"; it really knocks the stuffing out of a dangling bowling pin at 35 yards. Use Trailboss exclusively; too much velocity variation with less dense powders; the loads have run without drama in both rifles.
I'd still like a Japanese '92.
Moon

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know current quality but the second neatest modern lever action I know is the Browning/Miroku Model 53 .32 WCF.
The very neatest is the one a guy here had converted to full magazine to give him ten shots for CAS.

Me? I got by with a ca 1907 Winchester 1892.

 

[SwampWolf]

(I confess I was a Chuck fan as a kid)

So was I.

 

[BigBlue 94]

I don't know current quality but the second neatest modern lever action I know is the Browning/Miroku Model 53 .32 WCF.
The very neatest is the one a guy here had converted to full magazine to give him ten shots for CAS.

Me? I got by with a ca 1907 Winchester 1892.

I have a Browning Miroku BLR in .243. Fantastic rifle.

To the OP, no experience with the '92 but i like it. 45Colt is a fun cartridge. The big lever begs for you to grab the reins in your teeth and mutter fill your hands you son of a b...

 

[Roverguy]

I have a Rossi R92 in 45 Colt. Very nice little rifle after finishing work. I would much prefer a Miroku made Win 92. Great find! They are such handy, compact rifles and, within the limits of a pistol cartridge, very effective. My experience, with the 16” Rossi at least, has been that 250 grs lead gas check bullets over 20 grs H4227 (this is @23,000 psi, so NOT suitable for most revolvers in 45 Colt) does about 1275 fps. 4227 can be a bit cruddy in the barrel, but seems to me a really good choice for 45 Colt in carbines and rifles. Enjoy your new rifle!