Steven Youngblood
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- Oct 4, 2008
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That is just way cool.
Opinions on cutting a snubbie .44
- Thread starter madcratebuilder
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madcratebuilder
Member
My thoughts exactly. I hope to get back to this project soon.
SHIPCHIEF
Member
I like this thread. I'm shopping for an 1860 snubnose tomorrow.
About the birdshead grip?
VTI gun parts sell them for the SAA, won't that fit? I just ordered a spare 1851 Sheriff barrel (5 1/2") for my 'London' .44 Pietta from them. The possibilities are almost endless for an open top colt.
I don't know (yet) how many parts inter-change from the 1851, 1860, 1861, and SAA, like grip frames, screws, small parts etc, but I bet it's more than a few? Does some one here know or better yet, have a list??
Brass melts at a reasonable low temp, so you could make a mold and pour a custom grip frame?
Part of the fun of Cap & Ball revolvers is making a holster for each one.
About the birdshead grip?
VTI gun parts sell them for the SAA, won't that fit? I just ordered a spare 1851 Sheriff barrel (5 1/2") for my 'London' .44 Pietta from them. The possibilities are almost endless for an open top colt.
I don't know (yet) how many parts inter-change from the 1851, 1860, 1861, and SAA, like grip frames, screws, small parts etc, but I bet it's more than a few? Does some one here know or better yet, have a list??
Brass melts at a reasonable low temp, so you could make a mold and pour a custom grip frame?
Part of the fun of Cap & Ball revolvers is making a holster for each one.
TomADC
Member
That thing gets much shorter andit will burn all the hair off your knuckles when you shoot it
I like it, I have a brass frame EMF 44 that may become a donor...
I like it, I have a brass frame EMF 44 that may become a donor...
madcratebuilder
Member
I looked at what VTI had to offer, I guess I choked on the price so I did this.
I have to do a minor cut on the front of the frame to close up a excessive barrel gap and stop being lazy and nickle plate the frame.
I like the way the new grip shape feels, better than a birdshead actually. I did bob the hammer spur and re checker it.
I have to do a minor cut on the front of the frame to close up a excessive barrel gap and stop being lazy and nickle plate the frame.
I like the way the new grip shape feels, better than a birdshead actually. I did bob the hammer spur and re checker it.
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Chief,
The 51, 60, and 61 all use the same size frame so the internals will interchange with some fitting required. How much fitting depends on the manufacturer. While the gripstraps and guard will interchange among the 44s and 36s, I have never seen or heard of an original 44 that left the factory with a smaller 51 grip. Or vise versa. The two I have seen had different serial numbers from the frame.
The Model P (SAA) uses many of the same internals and the gripstrap and guard from the 51/61. The hammer and hand are different from the C&B revolvers.
Hope this helps.
TomADC
Member
Not sure this will help but looks like a great backyard way to crown a muzzle.
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/muzzle/mz.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/muzzle/mz.html
SHIPCHIEF
Member
Thanks for the interchange info STRAWHAT!
Also the crowning link TOM.
Madcrate and all, Today I went to the Washington Arms Collectors trade show at the Monroe Fairgrounds.
I didn't see many Cap-n-ball revolvers this time, and not the Pietta 'Shopkeeper' I was looking for, but I did try my hand to some various single action revolver grips, especially Birdshead and Thunderer (same as Lightning?) style grips. I was thinking I liked the birdshead better than the Thunderer type. The birdshead seems like the regular plowhandle where it meets the frame?
So I really like Madcratebuilders real Honest to God adaption, which seems more like how to do it back in The Day.
Also the crowning link TOM.
Madcrate and all, Today I went to the Washington Arms Collectors trade show at the Monroe Fairgrounds.
I didn't see many Cap-n-ball revolvers this time, and not the Pietta 'Shopkeeper' I was looking for, but I did try my hand to some various single action revolver grips, especially Birdshead and Thunderer (same as Lightning?) style grips. I was thinking I liked the birdshead better than the Thunderer type. The birdshead seems like the regular plowhandle where it meets the frame?
So I really like Madcratebuilders real Honest to God adaption, which seems more like how to do it back in The Day.
madcratebuilder
Member
I took about half the thickness off the bottom rear of the back strap. I took less off the front were it joins the trigger guard. I'm pretty close to the screw that goes in the trigger guard.
I picked up a used back strap and I'm going to try to braze some additional brass on the bottom rear on the inside radius so I can round it off more. Not sure if the heat well warp thing to badly. I think I can clamp it onto a piece of steel plate and get it to keep it's shape. If I fubar it I'm not out much.
Do you mean, build-up by adding Molten Torch-Welded material onto the inside Backstrap area?
Or, Silver-Braze-alloy an additional similar alloy Brass piece, onto the inside backstrap area?
The former...would seem scarey to me, though it can be done...the latter, should be safe to do.
Long as you heat the whole evenly, while concentrating on the specific area of Welding/Brazing...should behave alright...and, if it did warp little, it'd be easy to true once cooled.
Cast Brass, and Brass generally, when Heated 'Hot' enough, tends to behave like Cream Cheese...with not much Window of local surface-melt for binding/Welding Brass to Brass directly...so, a slightly lower melting point Silver-alloy Brazing Rod, as is used in Air Conditioning related Pipe Brazing, does very nicely for Welding Brass to Brass.
Or, Silver-Braze-alloy an additional similar alloy Brass piece, onto the inside backstrap area?
The former...would seem scarey to me, though it can be done...the latter, should be safe to do.
Long as you heat the whole evenly, while concentrating on the specific area of Welding/Brazing...should behave alright...and, if it did warp little, it'd be easy to true once cooled.
Cast Brass, and Brass generally, when Heated 'Hot' enough, tends to behave like Cream Cheese...with not much Window of local surface-melt for binding/Welding Brass to Brass directly...so, a slightly lower melting point Silver-alloy Brazing Rod, as is used in Air Conditioning related Pipe Brazing, does very nicely for Welding Brass to Brass.
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SHIPCHIEF
Member
I'm wondering if you could make a plaster of paris type mold casting around the outside edges to hold it in place while adding heat and filler material?
This advice is worth what you paid for it.....nuthin'. Just wondering.
This advice is worth what you paid for it.....nuthin'. Just wondering.
It would not help...(Supporting with Plaster or other...)
But...
It'd be very easy to cold form a piece to add inside the bottom rear 'Elbow', have it fit well...and, Silver-Alloy Braze it on...tidy-up for width with a sharp larger File...no danger, no risk, no troubles.
But...
It'd be very easy to cold form a piece to add inside the bottom rear 'Elbow', have it fit well...and, Silver-Alloy Braze it on...tidy-up for width with a sharp larger File...no danger, no risk, no troubles.
One thing I learned about brazing brass is that I can not do it. By the time everything got hot enough to braze my brass piece melted. Silver soldering was the way for me to join two pieces of brass. Not saying it can't be done, just not by me.
Your welcome.
Not sure what a shopkeeper by Pietta is but the easiest way to get a short barreled 1860 is to do what they did back in the late 1800s, use a hack saw. All the holster revolvers from Colts came in one barrel length - long. It was up to the end user to modify it to suit him. My Walker and 1860 have been modified to suit me.
I have seen originals and photos of revolves so modified and that is what got me pointed in that direction. Some where mere barrel jobs, others had grip modifications. About half had front sights added the others were just card table guns. One Dragoon was also converted to handle the 44 Colt cartridge.
So, an 8" 1860 and a hacksaw is all you need for your "Shopkeepers" revolver!
SHIPCHIEF
Member
StrawHat;
That's my plan. I just won a reasonable bid on G*nbroker for a 1860, so soon enough I'll see whether I have the nerve to 'do the deed'.
That's my plan. I just won a reasonable bid on G*nbroker for a 1860, so soon enough I'll see whether I have the nerve to 'do the deed'.
TomADC
Member
MCB I'm missing something where are you going to trim the frame? Anyway to get a picture with an arrow or something?
I'm going to do the EMF brass frame 1851 like that, not sure I have the same skill level as you, probably be better just to send mine to you so you can get more practice
I'm going to do the EMF brass frame 1851 like that, not sure I have the same skill level as you, probably be better just to send mine to you so you can get more practice
missuramoss
Member
I'm like TomADC..I dont have that kinda skill level...but by gawd...madcrate gave me a lotta inspiration to try a project like that..I love those avengin angels...the look of em is just to awe inspiring to pass up havin one!! I cant use the brasser I have now...cause its got a specail story behind it...but I will get another one soon...and follow madcrates example!!..fantastic work yer doin madcrate!!
madcratebuilder
Member
There is a fine line between brazing and vaporizing with cast brass.
Small tip and localized heat some skill and a lot of luck.
TomADC, if I fill the inside radius on the bottom rear of the back strap I can then cut more of that bottom corner away giving my a larger radius.
I'm pretty happy with the way it is now. Cutting the flare from the bottom sides of the grip panel really made a difference in feel.
This ain't rocket surgery guys. I have a cheap Horrible Freight vertical belt sander, like $40 on sale. It uses a 1X36 belt and I think I spent more on some good quality belts of assorted grit than I did the machine. Don't use to course of grit as it removes material faster than you think. I start with 220 and get close then 320 and 400. Just go slow, you can always go back and remove more material, putting it back on is another story.
Small tip and localized heat some skill and a lot of luck.TomADC, if I fill the inside radius on the bottom rear of the back strap I can then cut more of that bottom corner away giving my a larger radius.
I'm pretty happy with the way it is now. Cutting the flare from the bottom sides of the grip panel really made a difference in feel.
This ain't rocket surgery guys. I have a cheap Horrible Freight vertical belt sander, like $40 on sale. It uses a 1X36 belt and I think I spent more on some good quality belts of assorted grit than I did the machine. Don't use to course of grit as it removes material faster than you think. I start with 220 and get close then 320 and 400. Just go slow, you can always go back and remove more material, putting it back on is another story.
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