??origin of names of black powder grades??

[philkryder]

A question regarding the names of the various fineness grades of black powder came up recently at one of my hunter safety classes.

What the origin of the grades "ffg" "fffg".... etc.

All I could tell the class was that more "Fs" meant finer powder and to be sure to use the grade recommended for the activity...

By why are they called what they are?

thanks!
Phil

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

My guess would be that the "f" stands for fine as in fine grain.Hence fg,ffg etc..

 

[philkryder]

yeah - that makes sense - but it would be nice to have a reference to a company listing the names spelled out and the the abreviations...

I wonder if it pre-dates blackpowder?

Perhaps it has its origin in pharmacy or something like that...

 

[Jim K]

AFAIK, that is correct. At one time there was only one powder granulation, a coarse grain used for muskets and large bore pistols. The same grain was used in the pan of the flintlock. As powder improved and bore size decreased, a finer grain powder called "Fine Grain" or "FG" was introduced. This proved better for rifles and, later, revolvers also. When even finer grades were introduced, the convention was to add more "F"s for "Fine Fine Grain", "Fine Fine Fine Grain".

Jim

 

[mec]

Interesting. Now everybody considers FFFG optimum for revolvers of whatever caliber. Keith in Sixguns recommended FFG for everything over .31. I wonder what they used during the revolver period?? What granulation size was Colt's Hazard Powder??? It does make a difference in performance.

We tried FFG and FFFG and Pyrodex RS and P in a 50 great plains and a Walker Replica and got this:
Lyman.50 ball FFG 40 grains: 681
Lyman 50 ball FFFG 40 grains 884
Pyrodex RS 40 gr/vol 645
Pyrodex P 40 gr/vol 927

Walker .454 Ball FFG 55gr 956
Walker .454 Ball FFFG 1001
Walker .454 Ball Pyrodex RS 60 gr/vol 1045
Walker .454 Ball Pyrodex P 60 gr/vol 1221

 

[Jim Watson]

The "g" stands for graphited.
When black powder was all there was, there were many more grades. Not all were coated with graphite in the glazing process. They were graded by granulation, F, FF, FFF. The ones with graphite had the "g" added, Fg, etc.

Hanged if I know where the basic F designations came from.

Not all makers used it. Curtiss and Harvey grades were numbered, No 6 apparently the most popular. Other brands were cataloged by application, as the Hazard's Ducking powder that Mr Gould liked to go behind his express bullet.

 

[philkryder]

Thanks Jim.
That G makes sense for graphite. There should be some references to powder with just Fs in the name earlier on.

My wife bought me that new book that is just out on Gunpowder.

Maybe I can write the author and find out more.

I do remember that one of DuiPonts - I think Lammont - added the graphiting...

One of the interesting things in that book was the german military development of a "brown powder" based on a charcoal that was from rye straw that had only partially been coked. The brown charcoal and specilal big chunks with a hole in the center lead to a slower burning - somewhat progressive - artilary powder with better velocity.

It was soon made obsolete by smokeless.
But it is interesting to note that advances were being made late into the 1800s...
Phil

 

[JackM]

From some old notes.

The sporting size grades are Fg, FFg, FFFg, and FFFFg, from largest to smallest. Larger grades than Fg, like Cannon, aren't used in sporting guns. The number of "F"s indicates the screen size used to grade the powder. Each manufacturer has their own idea for what the proper size is for each grade, and they have changed over time too. These sizes are in a hole or wires per inch basis.

Grade Pass Hold
Fg 12 16
FFg 16 30
FFFg 30 50
FFFFg 50 --

The old FFFFg specification called for a stop on a 90 per inch screen. Modern FFFFg includes all the fines, and that's OK for flintlock pan powder, but older load data used FFFFg in small, strong pistols. The finer modern FFFFg may be too fast.

Bye
Jack