Our Home Invasion 01-03-05

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Aahzz said:
Excellent job, Puppy. You're right, what matters is that your family and home are safe and unharmed. No point in Monday morning quarterbacking.
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Agreed Puppy handled the job right when entry was made. I am sure he posted here his steps to get feedback from people here. Again, part of protecting your family and home is creating layers of protection. Obviously layers get removed the more you are exposed (entry, exiting, outside in the world) but using force is the last layer. Allowing someone inside your home and within range of your family is a high level of trust not offered to many in my life. I stand by this strongly and must make this point relevant.
Take care all.
 
Oy vey.

Puppy acted exactly appropriately, and would earn kudos from any instructor I know.

Detaining bad guys is a job for the police. They have partners, dogs, handcuffs, training, Kevlar, and good lawyers to boot.

Keeping his family safe was Puppy's job. Getting that scumbag as far away as possible as soon as possible was (and usually is) the best way to do that.

And while the sack-o-crap may have deserved killin', it could have cost Puppy tens of thousands of dollars to defend himself, and there's always the chance he could lose.

I am Monday-morning quarterbacking, and I say, "Well done!"
 
I really wish I had time to reply to everyone individually, there has been alot of really good comments & replies to this thread.

Dain Bramage, to answer your question, a Colt Combat Commander in a Ross Leather M7 Holster.
 
What is becoming common in Southeastern Kansas City is SWAT style home invasions generally involving three armed men that invade in full force with guns drawn.
 
I gotta go with what Matt Payne said:

And while the sack-o-crap may have deserved killin', it could have cost Puppy tens of thousands of dollars to defend himself, and there's always the chance he could lose.
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If this had ended up in a dead BG, especially if he WAS unarmed, there is a good chance puppy would need to defend his actions to a jury. The trial/defense could bankrupt his family and destroy his life as he knows it. Given that as an alternative, I'm glad to hear as I'm sure we all are, that he handled it the way he did.

This has also made me reconsider my carry @ home plan. Right now I only do so if I think about it or remember to do so. I really need to make a point to do so.
 
Puppy, you did good. You handled both problem #1 and problem #2 with dispatch.

Problem #1: the immediate threat. You stopped your attacker.

Problem #2: the aftermath. Police difficulties, Legal fees, courtroom time, etc. This you avoided adroitly.

Ignore the Rambos here that would have you blast away. You did what was best for you and your family.
 
ralphie98 said:
If this had ended up in a dead BG, especially if he WAS unarmed, there is a good chance puppy would need to defend his actions to a jury.
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Does the state he lives in have a "castle doctrine"? I know many states do. It says that when confronted with home invasion, immediate deadly force is authorized to repel the threat and there is no legal requirement to retreat even one single inch. Some (many? Most?) states also have laws that prevent an offender or his/her family from seeking civil damages from any victim of the offender's actions.

Under these two legal "umbrella's", the protaganist of this thread would have been covered. However, since the threat was repelled, I would find it hard to say that he did not perform exceptionally.
 
I seriously doubt the scumbag will return to Puppy's house.

After all the first time he was greeted with a laser equipped .45.
He'll wonder what he'll have with him if he's expecting trouble?

Most of those types are just humanoid shaped piles of poultry dung and they'll go where the pickings are easier.

And for those who want to second guess Puppy.
You weren't there, his way worked for him.
He was prepared and didn't flinch when the balloon appeared.

Life isn't always a line drive right to the third baseman with runners on first and second.
You have to adapt and react.

Puppy performed admirably.

The rest of y'all should do as well.
 
I have wondered about using a laser not just for an aid to aiming but for its' deterring affect on the bad guy when he gets lit up by it. I mounted a cheapy one on my shotgun but took it off because it would not hold its' zero (not even close).

It is possible that the laser might have made that one little bit of difference in Puppy's situation.

I think that a return visit is possible. Puppy’s house is now in the bad guy’s mind. First contact with the homeowner has been made so second contact might have less resistance in the bad guy's distorted lil' brain. The wife and child were observed. A valuable firearm is known to be in the house. The intruder may feel the need to now redeem himself and "win". The bad guy may now obsess over the scary incident and think of different ways he could have handled the situation better and then go and try a second time using a different tactic. The bad guy may desire to “pay the homeowner back†and “show him who is in chargeâ€. The bad guy might try something when Puppy is not home.
 
I think I would've crapped in my pants after he crapped in his and left! ;)

Bottom line is that none of the good guys got hurt.
 
Good job. I'm glad everything turned out OK.

The intruder could have gotten your neighbor's name off of his mailbox, by the way.
 
I think you did very well also. I have not had a great amount of training, but the training I have had stresses that you do want want to shoot unless you absolutely have to. If you do you'll likely get sued and go through many months of misery that you avoided.

I'd advise all who can to install steel security doors. We got the good ones with 4" of steel around the screen/decorative middle part. Since putting those on the double front and single back door I have much less concern about someone entering. They cannot kick it in, and if I open the door to someone they still have the steel door to get through. These are expensive, but well worth it IMHO.
 
Steel Frame and steel door is the way to go. I also use a brace.

This door has done its' job after 4 break in attempts. I no longer answer the door to strangers.

attachment.php
 
What if, after you said this, the BG just turned around and walked out anyway. Would you shoot?
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any movement means ANY movement... how do i know hes moving to walk out... he could be moving to get a better position for attack.. or moving to signal his buddies... he will do as instructed him not complying with my commands will also get him shot.. as i said a man enters my home in such a manner hes either going to the grave or to prison.... or at least jail.

hes invaded MY home i have every right to defend my home and life of loved ones even if that results in ending his.
 
yes most importantly no one was hurt... but allowing him to leave is not something i would have done... i would have kept everyone away from him (including myself at least 20 feet )and held him at gun point until the police arrived...
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Unfortunately, most folks do not realize that this is NOT a choice.

Consider this:

Scenario the same as the one that started this thread. You hold stranger at gunpoint, and prone them out. Now what?

Your existence at that time until the police get there is reduced to your front sight. For any prolonged period of time it is easy to get tunnel vision. Plus, you have your family to think about. You must keep them situationally aware, and keep them away from the bad man.

Plus, it gives the BG time to think. Time to plan. And time to attack, if they want to.

Not only that, but what do you do if you command the BG to go prone, and they say, "No way man, I'm out of here." And, promptly turn to walk off?

There is no flame intended, but the best course of action is simply to let them go--get them out of your house.

Of course, pulling the trigger--the final option--is always reserved in the worst-case scenario.
 
Sergeant Sabre, Indiana does not have a Castle Doctrine, so sadly, if the guy was unarmed Puppy could have faced a manslaughter charge. It really is sad, Indiana has one of the most lenient CCW laws around, but deadly force is very hazy in this situation if a weapon was not clearly visible.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
(b) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including
deadly force, against another person if the person reasonably believes
that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's
unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling or curtilage.

The *reasonable* in that statement may have turned bad for Puppy. I hope that I would have acted the same way as he in the situation, but if there was a gun or a knife it would be a different ending.

As for Anderson PD, I know an officer on that department, and he is one of the best men I know...if the rest of the department is half as professional as he it explains the 3 minute response time.
 
The perp won't return. These criminals are, as others have pointed out, tend to go for unprepared victims.

There is no way that he will return, knowing that doing so means risking his life.

Puppy should still stay prepared, but there is a better chance of the perp not returning than returning.

I.G.B.
 
I can just hear that dirtbag singing now....."Just give me two steps toward the door, and you'll never see me again!" :) But manoman, I'm sure you feel the same way I do...if he would have taken one step toward you or your family, he would be taking a dirt nap right now. Kinda reminds me of what G. Gordon Liddy once said about a home intruder that his wife caught in the kitchen holding a butcher knife. She had the kids behind her, and the .45 trained on his chest. She ordered him to drop the knife, and when he refused she said....."now children, watch mommy as she makes the bad mans head explode." He dropped the knife and ran. Now I don't know if its true, or he was just telling a funny story, but it just always cracks me up when I remember it. :D
 
"Your existence at that time until the police get there is reduced to your front sight."

Good point, Powderman-not to mention that Puppy had no way of knowing if there were multiple bad guys.

Way to go, Puppy!
 
You acted properly, Puppy

This one is my favorite.

hold him at gunpoint and have your wife get some duct tape. Tape his hands and feet tight and present him to the police.
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Some guys machismo just baffles me. Don't listen to advice like this. Why place yourself in close proximity to your home invader? (Or were you supposed to let your wife to the duct-taping? I wasn't sure on that one.)

Distance is your friend, remember that, okay?

Puppy, I'm proud of you. He was certainly a threat, but not a deadly threat after you froze him at gunpoint. The type of threat can change in a microsecond from fearing for your immediate safety to being in control of the situation, and you alone are responsible for adjusting to the fluidity of the moment. If some of you don't understand this, just remember the video of the Marine who shot an Iraqi insurgent that was pretending to be dead.

Allowing him to make an exit was not only the best outcome, but it saved you many nights of anguish and possibly your daughter's future college money.

My best friend was robbed at gunpoint in his own driveway, and he now is so fixated on self defense that it rules his entire life. I hope you are able to keep what happened as a "lesson learned" without it dominating your every waking moment.

Sleep well, Good Sir.

nitesite
 
I have wondered about using a laser not just for an aid to aiming but for its' deterring affect on the bad guy when he gets lit up by it. I mounted a cheapy one on my shotgun but took it off because it would not hold its' zero (not even close).
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At typical home defense distances, you're worried about the zero of a laser on a SHOTGUN? How do you zero a shotgun?
 
I appreciate the input Powderman... but I simply couldnt live with myself if in the following days or weeks the scumbag returned to the area and either A) did something unspeakable to one of my neighbors. or B) returned to my home when I wasnt home and did unspeakable things to my family. Ill deal with some "tunnel vision" until the police arrive as the post is less than a mile from my home.

Those that choose to do otherwise. Hey thats your choice. Its your life your neighborhood your family.

Most likely I would simply draw and fire. Without saying anything to the scumbag.

A person thats willing to enter a persons home in such a manner has no common sense. So therefore I would expect him to return to the area and attempt something again. Whether it be to one of my neighbors or my family. Both are preventable.

IMO Those of you that ONLY care about getting the scumbag out of YOUR house is exactly why neighborhoods are the way they are today. I believe in looking after my neighbors as they do me.

call me right call me wrong..... but you know what they say about opinions...........
 
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