+p In 45acp Do You Realy Need?

[ge0624me]

Question: is with the size and potentcy of the 45acp round comparing it to the 9mm and other subcalibers, do you really need it in +p, with it's track record of such a good self defense round, thruout history, will the added cost , and not to mention the strain it put's on a aged 1911 or older pistol, out weigh the benifits....i can see the need in 9mm or so but 45acp? ley me know whatcha think..thx

 

[chupacabrah]

I trust standard pressure 9mm with my life....so I imagine you don't need .45 acp + p.

I wouldn't want to be hit with one, regardless.

Just make sure you can hit what you're aiming at

 

[rcmodel]

No!

Standard .45 ACP offers the best balance of power + fast follow-up shots.

If you need more power then .45 ACP, you need a bigger caliber & a different gun platform to handle it.

Course, I feel the same way about +P 9mm too.

Either one will do the job nicely with standard pressure loads, if you put the bullets where they need to go.

rcmodel

 

[Kosh75287]

If you sacrifice anything in terms of speed or accuracy when using +P .45 ACP rounds, it's probably false economy. This is assuming that your prospective aggressor is a human with a bad attitude and not a bear. For MY money, I have about as much faith or more in a 200 grain or heavier pill with a large flat point at "standard" veloctiy as I'd expect to have with a JSP or JHP. I don't expect the latter to expand at standard velocities, and they may not expand reliably at +P velocities. The cast projectile with a flat point does not require expansion to be quite effective.

 

[Prepster]

I've never understood the desire for a +P .45 auto. As others said, standard pressure cartridges work just fine on people. If you need protection from four legged bad guys and can't carry a rifle, .44 magnum or juiced up .45 colt revolvers are a much better choice.

 

[Rustynuts]

I say why not if you can handle the recoil! More FPS the better! More energy on target.

 

[possum]

i don't think so, standard pressure loadings will do you just fine. however i am testing 13 different loads, form the major players in sd ammo ranging form 165gr+p-230gr+p and everything in between. I have a 42oz 1911, so even some of the +p offerings aren't that bad, but i can definetly see how some of the lighter weight 1911's, and other .45 acp model guns could be no fun at all to shoot the +p loads.

basically what i am looking for is a +p offereing that will be as easy to control, with quick follow up shots as the standard 230gr offereings. while maintaing 100% reliability. This would be a win win, if i can find it, more fps, better expanstion, therefor better terminal ballistics, without beating me to death. priceless!

 

[Smaug]

I'd prefer +P so that my hollow point ammo will expand more reliably. That's the one thing the low velocities present in 45 ACP are not good for - reliable expansion.

 

[Zesty]

The only thing I shoot it in is .45acp HST+p. I have shot both +p and non, and I truly can't feel a noticable difference. But from ballistice testing they do expand a bit wider than the non +p stuff.

 

[Hypnogator]

I truly can't feel a noticable difference.

In a light weapon (like the Kahr PM-45) you will definitely feel the difference! Not uncontrollable, but enough more recoil to interfere with quick follow-up shots.

I've gone to the Taurus/Barnes 185-gr JHP in standard pressure for the little cannon.

 

[meef]

Do I need it? Need?

If I ever had to actually use my .45 in self defense, I'd want that little pill traveling at all the velocity I could wring out of it!

I have no problem handling +P, so by golly - it's going in the tube.

 

[orionengnr]

230 gr standard pressure ammo was designed for 5" barrels. Of course, those steel 5" 1911s weigh 36-43 oz, and are not terribly easy to conceal for those of us who are smaller in stature.

So, some of us carry 1911s which start at 23 oz and have 3" barrels. In order to maintain the velocity required for reliable expansion, one can either:

--shoot a lighter slug--200 gr, 185 gr, 160 gr. (of course, this kind of defeats the purpose of carrying a 45 in the first place)
--shoot +p to regain that velocity from the shorter barreled 45s.

Sounds like an easy choice to me.

 

[mljdeckard]

Commercial, name brand hollow-points use bullets designed for that caliber and velocity. They expand at least as reliably at standard velocity as any other velocity.

I'm with rcmodel and possum. If you want a pistol with hotter velocity, use a different caliber. I also absolutely agree that smaller bullets are for shorter barreled (lower velocity) pistols.

I personally think that +P ammo was invented to appeal to car people who have been programmed to think that it's always a good thing if it's been bored and stroked. The .45 acp was specifically to use the advantages of a low velocity round. (Keep your mudballs about whether or not that's the best kind of round or not to yourself.)

 

[MICHAEL T]

Since a 3" looses around a 100fps over a 5" I use +P to give me back the lost FPS . I also shoot 185 DPX and to me. Felt recoil is no worst than 230 ball or HP.
I belive those special cops in LA That have their special Kimber pistols carry Winchester 230 +P in their pistols on dury.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Do ya need it? Certainly not.

Typical 230g bullets traveling between 750 to 850 fps are more than enough to do the work.

Bullet type is more important IMO. I shoot a cast TC and I keep a box of Silvertips for HD, but I'm thinking of switching to the TC there too.

Why...?

The flat front end - metplat - transmits the shock of impact and creates a temporary cavity, plus the monolithic solid properties of a cast round aid in penetration.

All the good moulds for hunting bullets in handguns have a large metplat for this reason. If it will stop an angry animal, it should work just fine for a two legged critter wearing multiple layers. This from your standard .45acp.

 

[Zesty]

The only gun I can compare in would be an XD45 service. But I would agree if I felt it affected my follow-ups I would opt for the standard loads. I can only speak for HST out of this gun.

 

[Deer Hunter]

If you can make something better, why wouldn't you?

If I can get soemthing going 100 FPS faster, then I think that's a good thing.

 

[weisse52]

I'm with rcmodel and possum. If you want a pistol with hotter velocity, use a different caliber.

I falll to this line of thinking as well.

 

[NG VI]

JSP or JHP. I don't expect the latter to expand at standard velocities, and they may not expand reliably at +P velocities. The cast projectile with a flat point does not require expansion to be quite effective.

That is no longer true, 230 grain JHP offers very reliable expansion even in shorter than 5" guns now. I would be worried if using an older design of bullet in a subcompact gun, but with the bullets we have had for the last ten years and the brilliant HST (which expands more in heavy for caliber bullets) but with newer bullets they are pretty much all great choices.

If you can make something better, why wouldn't you?

If I can get soemthing going 100 FPS faster, then I think that's a good thing.

Agreed. That is why I have only +P HST, my CZ 97B can hack it, so can I, I do notice a difference in recoil compared to ultramax reloads and WWB but that is what I want out of my premium defensive loads, a nice warm flying saucer that I know will perform above and beyond what an FMJ or one of the first generation JHPs will.

 

[KBintheSLC]

+p In 45acp Do You Realy Need?

+P in any caliber is really only needed in guns with 3.5" or shorter barrels. It will bring the velocity up to normal performance ranges. As for duty sized guns, I see no need for it.

If you can make something better, why wouldn't you?

If I can get soemthing going 100 FPS faster, then I think that's a good thing.

That depends, sometimes too much velocity can lower penetration. So "better" is a subjective term. Also, I doubt that +P will add a full 100fps to a 45.

 

[NG VI]

That depends, sometimes too much velocity can lower penetration. So "better" is a subjective term. Also, I doubt that +P will add a full 100fps to a 45.
__________________

Not sure what Federal loads their standard velocity HST to, but the +P 230 HST is (box information) moving right along at 960 feet per second. I think Hornadys' XTP 230+P load is in the same neighborhood or even slightly faster. Definitely a boost in speed over the standard 830 feet per second original spec.

 

[golden]

Recoil Is The Deciding Factor

For me, the +P . 45 ACP exceed my recoil control limit. I can shoot them, but like the full power .41 magnum loads in my model 57. I shoot them slowly. This is ok for a hunting gun, but not really a good quality for a defense gun.

It really comes down to the individual.

Jim

 

[bwavec]

I think the +p loading in .45 is probably best for the shorter barreled handguns. The 230gr loading was designed around the 5" barrel 1911. Current HP rounds are designed to expand reliably at the velocities you get coming out of the "standard": a 4.5" to 5" barrel. To get good expansion from a shorter barrel and the lower muzzle velocity you need to add a little more juice, the +p loading.

Yes, in those smaller, lighter shorter barreled handguns you get more recoil and possibly more muzzle rise, making follow up shots a little slower. But hopefully the extra muzzle velocity of the +p loading will give the rounds a little better expansion. You have to try them out in the handgun you are using, and see what you hit targets best with. If you cannot hit the target, it doesn't matter how much expansion or muzzle velocity you have.

 

[loop]

A .45 hole in your body is a .45 hole. If you are counting on expansion to make up for accuracy you are making a mistake.

I'd rather shoot a mil spec load of ball at 830 fps that is accurate to within an inch at 10 yards than a hot HP that shoots two inches at 10 yards.

That is where the real argument comes in. Factory ammo is not that accurate. Powder, bullets, cases and primers vary from lot to lot. Just because one maker's rounds worked great this time doesn't mean the next box will shoot as well (and it probably won't).

Each of my SD guns is loaded with a particular round that has been tested and proven to be accurate and reliable in that gun. If it happens to be a downloaded 230-gr., LRN, that I can put between your eyes at 25 yards, that's fine.

My current full-size carry .45 is stuffed with factory loaded HPs. Both the compacts I carry regularly have LRN bullets. One is a pretty hot load the other is downloaded.

I want to hit my target within an inch of my point of aim. You can't miss fast enough to win a gun fight - didn't somebody else say that... LOL

Got no use for a +P. All it will do is batter the frame. If I need a bigger gun, I'll carry a bigger gun. And, when in grizzly country, I carry a bigger gun.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I load mine a little hot, but under +P...with the right powders you can get near +P speed without the pressure spike.


+P in a 45 isn't much help...100 fps (68 mph) ain't much OOMPH in a 230 grain projectile.

In a nutshell...you get more "flash and bang" and very little ballistic gain.