Because they are marketing them as 100% US made.
palmetto made ak?
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Because they are marketing them as 100% US made.
This is a prime example of stingy penny pinching stooges (fearful stooges with no backbone to support quality against the advice of people who are not professional arms makers) messing up an excellent design to save a few bucks while charging good money for substandard spec garbage.
It reminds me of Remingtons botched up R51. Yes it's an extreme example but really the same principle only it was so bad it couldn't fool people long enough to rip off the majority of buyers.
If I want a cheaply made civilian rifle that is what I will buy, and save a good bit of money. I think high point makes one great pistol caliber carbine for the money.
If I pay good money for somthing like an AK, more than the rest of the world pays for a superb high standard military grade full auto real AK I better get something good.
Until people start sending a message by not buying crap these cheapskates will keep the snake oil pitch rolling as long as buyers put up with it and keep throwing their money away.
Roll all the snake oil you want my way I won't buy it. I am sure all the gun grabbers are happy now.
It reminds me of Remingtons botched up R51. Yes it's an extreme example but really the same principle only it was so bad it couldn't fool people long enough to rip off the majority of buyers.
If I want a cheaply made civilian rifle that is what I will buy, and save a good bit of money. I think high point makes one great pistol caliber carbine for the money.
If I pay good money for somthing like an AK, more than the rest of the world pays for a superb high standard military grade full auto real AK I better get something good.
Until people start sending a message by not buying crap these cheapskates will keep the snake oil pitch rolling as long as buyers put up with it and keep throwing their money away.
Roll all the snake oil you want my way I won't buy it. I am sure all the gun grabbers are happy now.
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carbine85
Member
All things considered you would think someone could throw some steel on a Haas machine and just make them from billet.
Robski on youtube is reporting a broken lug on a cast trunnion. It's posted on the akfiles.com
Robski on youtube is reporting a broken lug on a cast trunnion. It's posted on the akfiles.com
It is worth noting that IO's shoddy rep comes from their older guns, which were imported parts kits built on US receivers. I own an older one and it still works great buuuuut...my brother bought a new one a few months back and it looks like it is built much better all around. Their US made guns look and feel like better quality firearms. They are also probably the only AK maker I can think of that warranties their guns for life.
I doubt it would raise the price to 300.00 more. It's obviously a cheapskate cost cutting move to line someones pocket with the extra money skimmed.
I don't know what kind of crack someone is on if they think these are better or even close to as good as Russian mil spec AKs.
I don't know what kind of crack someone is on if they think these are better or even close to as good as Russian mil spec AKs.
NWcityguy2
Member
The thread on akfiles is toast. Any talk of a test went away after Atlantic Firearms revealed that one of their Polish AKs had a cast trunnion (made in Poland mind you) and then yesterday the thread was locked. Don't bite the hand that feeds...
Is that something that is often claimed? Russian mil spec AKs sell for $900+ new here. The RAS47 is selling for under $600 and the PSA AK is selling for under $800.
American labor costs more than Eastern European labor, I am not sure that there is much price gouging at the prices the RAS47 or PSA AK are selling for.
NWcityguy2
Member
The further people get away from having some practical application for a gun, the more comments like these matter. Which gun is better at shooting a few hundred rounds a year? Which gun is better at hog or deer hunting? Which gun leaves more money left over for magazines and ammo? Which gun is better for high round count training? Which gun would perform better in a realistic, low round count, self defense scenario? All of those realistic questions have one or more right answers, and they are not all the same.
However, which gun is better for debating online with other people? Well, the answer to that is obvious... The more I shoot, the more I realize that people trying to prove black and white points online aren't even talking about shooting.
I don't really have a dog in this fight as I haven't gotten around to AK's yet. But, my M1A has a cast receiver and it does just fine along with the others made over the last decades. It handles the the direct forces of the bolt from a higher pressure cartridge. Granted, these are two different designs and I am not an engineer that can calculate the stresses on both, but surely a qualified engineer was involved in the process of making these trunnions. Of course using a "lesser" part is for saving costs if it can be done with reasonable reliability and safety factor. This is the same reason my M1A costs $1500 vs. a forged receiver'd M14 clone for $3000. Materials technologies and manufacturing techniques are improving all the time, so I guess that time will tell on these. I have been trying to wade into the AK world and it is issues and discussions like these that turn me off on them. It seems like the AK frontier, and I'll just wait to see who comes out on top eventually.
I would normally agree with you however I do not like the lack of candor as to what these items really are and where the parts come from.
I do not like generic statements like it's good enough for civilians because they will never use it the way the military will and there is simply no need for the higher quality standards.
This is not an appropriate answer for good questions.
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NWcityguy2
Member
There are AKs built to higher standards which are being sold for a higher price.
But once again, I am talking about practical applications and not generalizations.
But once again, I am talking about practical applications and not generalizations.
osprey176
Member
As far as the remark about PSA's AK being untested,this is completely false. Their design team often shoots at the same range I do. I have been to the range twice while they were testing the new AK. Last time I spoke with them,a couple weeks before the rollout,the round count was somewhere around 15,000 rounds with no major failures. A couple springs in early testing,and a red dot sight were the only things they told me about failing.I spoke to them several times during the range visits. The shooting they did was totally rapid fire,with four guys loading and one guy shooting. Mag dumps were a more accurate description.They used a small pallet with a four foot cubed box with a big hole cut in one side for a brass catcher. They didn't let the thing cool,and only sprayed it with CLP every hour or so to "clean" it. I'm not going to argue the finer points of AK design and construction,but I know the weapon was given a pretty brutal torture test that it handled quite well.
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